The AGA burns revisited.

[snow66!]

This expert is the only person who examined Ralphs injuries to the extent of shaving his head and cutting him open. He said there is CERTAINLY NO underlying fracture to the skull, he goes on to further say when questioned by Drake,  lapse of consciousness but in his view he would have RECOVERED VERY QUICKLY. I didn’t mention any name, because you like Bubo will revert back to a cover up. I would have thought for you to make such bold claims like you have, you would at least do some research.

I have read Vanezis' statements and trial testimony once upon a time, HB, but cant remember much about them now!
You still haven't told me what the lapse in consciousness refers to?

[snow66!]

I don't really think it matters if the Aga proves guilt or innocence, but to me it's a very important piece of the jigsaw of what happened that night.

Personally I think if it's established that the Aga caused the burns the only logical solution is Nevil was lying against it for hours before any shots were fired, as I don't think the police would move Nevil from the Aga to where he was found on the chair.

To me if the Aga is the cause of the burns it strongly points to Sheila as the shooter. All this rubbish about testing for signs of life if Bamber was the shooter and he was not sure he would just let off a few more shots.

Well said Rob!
Its all very well dismissing the Aga evidence, put if proven then we have to fit a scenario around it.

[Hardy Boy]

I have read Vanezis' statements and trial testimony once upon a time, HB, but cant remember much about them now!
You still haven't told me what the lapse in consciousness refers to?

Well I suggest you read it again.

[Bubo bubo]

Bubo, is JB actively championing this theory ?

Like you I am just a poster on an internet forum. I have always believed him innocent. My aim is to put forward an alternative narrative to that which has been brainwashed into the minds of folks, by the likes of  TV programs and biased books.
I believe PV helped in the coverup but he later found himself possibly implicated  and dragged into the framing which was concocted by the Essex police with the family providing a significant input to the process.
It was a Faustian pact. Neither side could snitch on the other both had every thing to lose.

I have studied this case for 16 years and have made my views known here and to reputable journalists. I doubt JB even knows my narrative.

In the course of my investigations I have talked to people who were there. I will not divulge my sources. I want to act using professional journalistic ethics.

[Hardy Boy]

Like you I am just a poster on an internet forum. I have always believed him innocent. My aim is to put forward an alternative narrative to that which has been brainwashed into the minds of folks, by the likes of  TV programs and biased books.
I believe PV helped in the coverup but he later found himself possibly implicated  and dragged into the framing which was concocted by the Essex police with the family providing a significant input to the process.
It was a Faustian pact. Neither side could snitch on the other both had every thing to lose.

I have studied this case for 16 years and have made my views known here and to reputable journalists. I doubt JB even knows my narrative.

In the course of my investigations I have talked to people who were there. I will not divulge my sources. I want to act using professional journalistic ethics.

You have the same views and journalistic ethics as Mr deputy editor of CCRC Watch himself…….. Bill!

[snow66!]

Well I suggest you read it again.

From Vanezis autopsy report-

Other external injuries- Head and neck- 'There was severe bruising and swelling of both eyes, the left eye being more severely affected. These injuries were associated with severe fractures to the skull'.

SEVERE FRACTURES TO THE SKULL- How do we know when these injuries were caused, HB?
Rifle stock across the face that sent Nevill to the floor beside the Aga long before he was shot?
How long do bruises take to form? Do they form after death?

[ILB]

Gérard Wiggins WS is the only statement in the entirety of the case that suggests Bamber was suggesting police involvement prior to his arrest. He was JBs mechanic.

[Jane]

From Vanezis autopsy report-

Other external injuries- Head and neck- 'There was severe bruising and swelling of both eyes, the left eye being more severely affected. These injuries were associated with severe fractures to the skull'.

SEVERE FRACTURES TO THE SKULL- How do we know when these injuries were caused, HB?
Rifle stock across the face that sent Nevill to the floor beside the Aga long before he was shot?
How long do bruises take to form? Do they form after death?

Oh! I get it!! You think, that having received "SEVERE FRACTURES TO THE SKULL" which rendered him unconscious for a given period of time, he came too, jumped up cool as a cucumber, in full command of his faculties and phoned JB, even remembering to tell him that Sheila had gone mad and had the gun.

[Hardy Boy]

From Vanezis autopsy report-

Other external injuries- Head and neck- 'There was severe bruising and swelling of both eyes, the left eye being more severely affected. These injuries were associated with severe fractures to the skull'.

SEVERE FRACTURES TO THE SKULL- How do we know when these injuries were caused, HB?
Rifle stock across the face that sent Nevill to the floor beside the Aga long before he was shot?
How long do bruises take to form? Do they form after death?

Read his trial testimony, my computer is broke and I can’t post the transcript.  Read where Rivlin is cross examining Vanezis about unconsciousness and Drake asks him questions about the same subject, to make it easy for you, scroll down about 34 pages in the trial statements.

[snow66!]

Oh! I get it!! You think, that having received "SEVERE FRACTURES TO THE SKULL" which rendered him unconscious for a given period of time, he came too, jumped up cool as a cucumber, in full command of his faculties and phoned JB, even remembering to tell him that Sheila had gone mad and had the gun.

Not sure about jumping up as cool as a cucumber, in full command of his senses Jane, I dont think thats how I described Nevill in the scenario! But basically, yes!

[snow66!]

Read his trial testimony, my computer is broke and I can’t post the transcript.  Read where Rivlin is cross examining Vanezis about unconsciousness and Drake asks him questions about the same subject, to make it easy for you, scroll down about 34 pages in the trial statements.

Will do, HB! I've been reading about the head injuries anyway!

[snow66!]

Read his trial testimony, my computer is broke and I can’t post the transcript.  Read where Rivlin is cross examining Vanezis about unconsciousness and Drake asks him questions about the same subject, to make it easy for you, scroll down about 34 pages in the trial statements.

OK,read it all now, HB.
Yes, they did discuss concussion, but that was in relation to the blow to the top of the head by the rifle barrel once Nevill was chased down stairs by Sheila, that blow didn't even cause a fracture.
As I said, I believe the blow to the eyes/brow which caused the severe fractures were addministered much earlier by the rifle stock, sending Nevill to the floor.
All the other wounds were caused by the rifle barrel in the kitchen once Nevill was shot in the face and arm!
Yes, it all fits!
No need to beat Nevill to a pulp when he was chased to the kitchen after being shot, he was at deaths door anyway, merely holding up his one good arm to be prodded and whacked by the rifle barrel before losing consciousness and stumbling onto the chair/scuttle to be shot!
Yes, thats how it must have happened, Nevill initially smashed in the forehead and knocked cold which broke the rifle stock, before regaining consiousness later on, only to be chased back to the kitchen where he was beaten with the rifle barrel then shot.
Yes, thats what the injuries show, HB, please accept this!

[Hardy Boy]

OK,read it all now, HB.
Yes, they did discuss concussion, but that was in relation to the blow to the top of the head by the rifle barrel once Nevill was chased down stairs by Sheila, that blow didn't even cause a fracture.
As I said, I believe the blow to the eyes/brow which caused the severe fractures were addministered much earlier by the rifle stock, sending Nevill to the floor.
All the other wounds were caused by the rifle barrel in the kitchen once Nevill was shot in the face and arm!
Yes, it all fits!
No need to beat Nevill to a pulp when he was chased to the kitchen after being shot, he was at deaths door anyway, merely holding up his one good arm to be prodded and whacked by the rifle barrel before losing consciousness and stumbling onto the chair/scuttle to be shot!
Yes, thats how it must have happened, Nevill initially smashed in the forehead and knocked cold which broke the rifle stock, before regaining consiousness later on, only to be chased back to the kitchen where he was beaten with the rifle barrel then shot.
Yes, thats what the injuries show, HB, please accept this!

Well you carry on with your stupid little game, you are simply making yourself look the idiot you are.  If anything,  you’re hurting Bamber,  because it shows the lack of intelligence and the length his supporters go to for him. 

[Jane]

OK,read it all now, HB.
Yes, they did discuss concussion, but that was in relation to the blow to the top of the head by the rifle barrel once Nevill was chased down stairs by Sheila, that blow didn't even cause a fracture.
As I said, I believe the blow to the eyes/brow which caused the severe fractures were addministered much earlier by the rifle stock, sending Nevill to the floor.
All the other wounds were caused by the rifle barrel in the kitchen once Nevill was shot in the face and arm!
Yes, it all fits!
No need to beat Nevill to a pulp when he was chased to the kitchen after being shot, he was at deaths door anyway, merely holding up his one good arm to be prodded and whacked by the rifle barrel before losing consciousness and stumbling onto the chair/scuttle to be shot!
Yes, thats how it must have happened, Nevill initially smashed in the forehead and knocked cold which broke the rifle stock, before regaining consiousness later on, only to be chased back to the kitchen where he was beaten with the rifle barrel then shot.
Yes, thats what the injuries show, HB, please accept this!

"Yes, thats what the injuries show, HB, please accept this!" !!! Well, at least Bubu has the humility to own that his scenarios are alternative versions! You appear to be claiming yours as facts! ie the discussion about concussion relating to a blow being delivered by Sheila as he ran down the stairs! Really? Perhaps you have access to knowledge that none of us have?

You have Nevill, according to you, already at death's door, being "chased to the kitchen after being shot". So where are you suggesting he was when he was "initially smashed in the forehead and knocked cold" then "before regaining consciousness later on, only to be chased back to the kitchen"?

In summary, I can't say it any better than HB already has.

[snow66!]

"Yes, thats what the injuries show, HB, please accept this!" !!! Well, at least Bubu has the humility to own that his scenarios are alternative versions! You appear to be claiming yours as facts! ie the discussion about concussion relating to a blow being delivered by Sheila as he ran down the stairs! Really? Perhaps you have access to knowledge that none of us have?

You have Nevill, according to you, already at death's door, being "chased to the kitchen after being shot". So where are you suggesting he was when he was "initially smashed in the forehead and knocked cold" then "before regaining consciousness later on, only to be chased back to the kitchen"?

In summary, I can't say it any better than HB already has.

Thanks for your opinion on the matter, Jane, but time will tell.
Well, hopefully, if the CCRC ever make a decision!