Author Topic: The AGA burns revisited.  (Read 7018 times)

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Offline snow66!

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The AGA burns revisited.
« on: April 15, 2025, 08:46:PM »
Now, for this exercise we will take it that the Aga did indeed cause the burns to Nevills back on the night of the murder, so if you dont see this as a possibility then this topic is not for you!
Now there are only two possibilities as to when the burns were made as far as I can see, either after Nevill was shot and beaten to death or before while only unconcious.

So let us have a look at each possibility.
If Nevill was dead while lying against the Aga, then surely he had sustained all gunshot wounds by that time, after all, if he was lying against the Aga in the position suggested by Philip Boyce then the final four shots to Nevills head could not be administered as the back of his head was against the cooker and the right side of his head was against the floor. In fact, it means that Nevill must have been sitting in a similar position as the one he was 'allegedly' found in order to recieve the final headshots before falling against the Aga, yet there doesnt seem to be any blood spatter to suggest this does there?

And I suppose that takes us to the latest piece of evidence regarding the police whistleblower and the crime scene video, which claims the scene was tampered with.
Does this mean the video shows the original crime scene before any tampering took place, and if so, did it show Nevill lying against the Aga? If not, and the video shows Nevill slumped over the scuttle as in the crime scene photos, then can we take it that the police did not move Nevill from the Aga to the scuttle upon entry?
Just what is the whistleblower saying regarding the position of the bodies in the video as opposed to the photos? Was there any difference? If not, what slam dunk is the whistleblower going to produce? A silencer lying beside Sheila? Probably not, else it would be in the papers by now!
So, unless we get some kind of statement from the whistleblower regarding the position of the victims bodies we cant tell if the police moved Nevill upon entry or not!

So what about the possibility that Nevill was simply knocked unconcious while he lay against the Aga?
This has been ridiculed by both supporters and guilters alike, but is it as far fetched as you would think?
After all, it would better explain a lot of anomalies in the Sheila scenario! eg, plenty of time to shoot June and the boys unhindered by Nevill, plenty time to re-load, plenty of time to wash and change, and to write the farewell letters before Nevill came round again! 
It also means the massacre may have started much earlier too when the Aga was at full heat!

Let us briefly go through the 'Nevill unconcious by the Aga' scenario-
Sheila decides to go on the rampage and retrieves the rifle, Nevill having heard her go down stairs goes to investigate and finding Shaila with the now loaded rifle tries to talk her down, Shaila snaps and swings the rifle, hitting Nevill on the head and sending him flying, landing on the floor with his back against the Aga. Nevill may have suffered a brain hemorrhage and been gravely injured!
Sheila proceeds to shoot June but only wouds her, June gets out of bed and struggles with Sheila around the bed before being knocked to the floor and finished off with two head shots.

Sheila reloads the rifle and proceeds to the twins room, they only recieve head shots because of the problem June was to kill as Sheila doesn't want them to waken up and suffer. Sheila reloads a third time in preparation to kill herself before cleaning herself up and writing the farewell letters to her birth mother

Nevill eventually stirs around 3.00, severely injured and shaken he stumbles onto a chair and phones JB for help, only saying a few words before trying to replace the phone on its cradle but misses in his concussed state and the phone ends up lying on the kitchen work top off the hook.
Nevill slowly staggers up stairs shouting 'June, are you alright'?, this alerts Sheila who has no option but to shoot Nevill when he eventually drags himself up stairs.
Nevill is shot twice in the face before turning, only to be shot again in the arm and torso.
Sheila follows Nevill to the kitchen finding him exhausted sitting in a chair, Nevill holds up his one good arm in defence as Sheila beats him to a stand still with the rifle.
The chair topples and Nevill lands on the side of it with his backside while his head lands in the coal scuttle.
This is the perfect position for Sheila to inflict the final four head shots, two to the back of the head and two to the right side beside the ear. And indeed most of the blood appears to be around the scuttle!
 So, there you are, the only two possible scenarios that I can see if the Aga did indeed cause the burns to Nevills back.
I dont expect much replies to this topic as I have said it all before and most of you dont give the Aga evidence much credence anyway, but if by chance the Aga evidence from Philip Boyce is accepted, I believe that Nevill being knocked out at the time is what most likely happened, unless of course the whistleblower proves otherwise!
Trouble is, I cant see how Nevill lying against the Aga from around 3.30 until 7.35 proves JBs innocence?


Offline BarefootDanC

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2025, 09:17:PM »
Even assuming the burns were caused by the Aga on the night of the killings, the questions you pose are very speculative.

How can we possibly deduce when on the night the burns were sustained?

A relevant question is, how if Nevill got the burns from Aga on the night of the killings, how did he end up precariously over a stool?

That, in and of itself, seems to me to make the who Aga theory very improbable.

Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2025, 09:29:PM »

Trouble is, I cant see how Nevill lying against the Aga from around 3.30 until 7.35 proves JBs innocence?

It doesn't Snow mate, which is why to me it's a fruitless excersise when trying to overturn his convictions.

He has to show something which puts the original verdict unsafe.
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Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2025, 09:34:PM »
As I've always said in reference to the burns I don't believe it was " sign of life test" when a simple pulse check suffices.
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Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2025, 09:39:PM »
The only thing the AGA can prove if they caused the burns is Nevill being moved.

It doesn't make Jeremy Bamber innocent, and Shelia Caffell gulity in a nutshell.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2025, 09:40:PM by ILB »
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Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2025, 09:45:PM »
As I've always said in reference to the burns I don't believe it was " sign of life test" when a simple pulse check suffices.

Me, Steve, Hardyboy, Jane, NGB, Scipio & former posters believe it was to check for signs of life.

Bamber had to do something to check for signs of life. Nevill had put up a big fight. But pulse checks are unreliable.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2025, 09:48:PM »
Me, Steve, Hardyboy, Jane, NGB, Scipio & former posters believe it was to check for signs of life.


Ok.....

And I don't believe that it was.
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Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2025, 09:50:PM »
But pulse checks are unreliable.

It is taught at rudimentary first aid.

Don't see how prodding a dying if not dead bloke who has been shot and beaten multiple times is going to garner a reaction.

When he can just take two fingers
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Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2025, 09:51:PM »
Ok.....

And I don't believe that it was.

I don't believe it was rage or spite.

He needed to stay focused.

He had also given Nevill 50+ bullet and non bullet injuries. Exorcising any spite or rage feelings.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2025, 09:51:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2025, 09:51:PM »

Nevill had put up a big fight.

Bamber didn't have mark upon him.
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Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2025, 09:53:PM »
It is taught at rudimentary first aid.

Don't see how prodding a dying if not dead bloke who has been shot and beaten multiple times is going to garner a reaction.

When he can just take two fingers

The evidence is he burnt Nevill's back. After lifting him onto the chair/coal scuttle.

If you would have done a pulse check, that is up to you.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2025, 09:56:PM »
The evidence is he burnt Nevill's back. After lifting him onto the chair/coal scuttle.


There's no evidence about the burns that is concrete, just opinions whether it be Vanesziz, Prof Knight, MF, or Caruso. We still can't 40 years on 100 percent with Crystal clarity confirm their origin.
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Offline ILB

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2025, 09:58:PM »
The evidence is he burnt Nevill's back. After lifting him onto the chair/coal scuttle.


That's your opinion.
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Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2025, 09:59:PM »
Bamber didn't have mark upon him.

The judges words are better - 'tremendous fight for life'.

More of a violent sustained attack by Bamber. Which had a brief wrestle for the rifle.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The AGA burns revisited.
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2025, 10:00:PM »
That's your opinion.

That's the evidence.

On a coal scuttle/chair. Three burn marks.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.