The timing of Jeremy's call to Julie Mugford

[Adam]

Bamber did insinuate Sheila & gave his rabbit story. There was then a rifle on Sheila.

For Taff that was enough. Early on.

[ILB]

Bamber did insinuate Sheila & gave his rabbit story. There was then a rifle on Sheila.

For Taff that was enough. Early on.

In fairness most of CID would back their gaffer Taff.

All but Stan and Micky Barlow

[ILB]

Bamber did insinuate Sheila & gave his rabbit story. There was then a rifle on Sheila.

For Taff that was enough. Early on.

SC had a history of mental illness, attitudes were different in the 80s

[Adam]

SC had a history of mental illness, attitudes were different in the 80s

Nutter, do lally, looney, been having treatment.

You can say that again.

[ILB]

Believe Taff came to a sensible conclusion on what was put before him. Post conviction in 1986, Ronald Stone ( chief of Essex police) backed Taff on his initial decision. However I don't believe he was fooled by Bamber, it's just a decision he came to. SC had a long history of mental illness and was a paranoid schizophrenic.

Think the portrayal of taff as a bumbling idiot in the drama was insulting and wrong. And disrespectful.

Whether he officially changed stance, we will never know. He died in July 1986. I'll not go off what his colleagues said due to bias of the events.

[ILB]

Nutter, do lally, looney, been having treatment.

You can say that again.

There is documented evidence of SC problems.

They didn't arrive at their conclusion on the basis of Bamber alone.

[ILB]

Nutter, do lally, looney, been having treatment.

You can say that again.

She had been having treatment.

Julie herself references Jeremy " finding it difficult to talk to shelia and be stuck for words when she was unwell"

Bamber at trial and to this day says he didn't understand her illness.

I would be the same, it's wasn't understood as much as it in today's world.

[Hardy Boy]

Do you think JB phoned Julie about 3.00, half an hour before calling the police, HB?
Was he really that stupid?

I haven’t put times on anything,  Bamber said he phoned the Police before Julie, then he back tracked and said he phoned Julie before the Police, he couldn’t give reasons why he phoned Julie before he phoned the Police.  He’s all over the place because he got caught out lying.

He also told Jones previously,  he spoke to Julie for not long, 1 minute 2 minute because he HAD to phone the Police!

[Adam]

The 5am call was planned. He needed Julie with him as soon as possible.

The 3.00am call may have been spontaneous. He was hyped up and Julie had dismissed him a few hours earlier. He had time to ring her prior to calling the police.

After eventually saying he called Julie before the police he could have said he called her as did not know what to do. But testified it was 'to hear a friendly voice'. At 3.00am.

[snow66!]

I haven’t put times on anything,  Bamber said he phoned the Police before Julie, then he back tracked and said he phoned Julie before the Police, he couldn’t give reasons why he phoned Julie before he phoned the Police.  He’s all over the place because he got caught out lying.

He also told Jones previously,  he spoke to Julie for not long, 1 minute 2 minute because he HAD to phone the Police!

But would he really have been all over the place if guilty, HB?
Doesn't this show that he was in a genuine panic, in brain fog territory you might say!
A cold blooded killer would have every detail and time down to a tee, no school boy errors would be made surely?

[Hardy Boy]

But would he really have been all over the place if guilty, HB?
Doesn't this show that he was in a genuine panic, in brain fog territory you might say!
A cold blooded killer would have every detail and time down to a tee, no school boy errors would be made surely?

Killers make mistakes or they would never be caught, don’t talk silly.  With the best planning in the world you cannot be sure of the eventual outcome,  it’s only when you lie you get caught out and that’s when you panic.  There is no mention of any police call from either Jeremy or Julie in the 3.00/3.15 am call, now if you had called your girlfriend to get her up out of bed at that time, you would have said, “I’ve had to call the Police, they’ve asked me to meet them at the farm” especially just coming off the phone to them.  For once use your Common sense!

[Jane]

But would he really have been all over the place if guilty, HB?
Doesn't this show that he was in a genuine panic, in brain fog territory you might say!
A cold blooded killer would have every detail and time down to a tee, no school boy errors would be made surely?

Thing is, Snow, none of us can make allowances for those things we don't know will happen. All we can do is sort them out, as best as we can, if, and when, they occur...............and that includes JB!

[snow66!]

Thing is, Snow, none of us can make allowances for those things we don't know will happen. All we can do is sort them out, as best as we can, if, and when, they occur...............and that includes JB!

But JB made the 3.15 call 'happen', Jane, surely he would have checked the time he made it if guilty? And surely he would have decided what to tell the police regarding whether he made the call before or after calling the police?
Nah, he was all over the place because he was in shock and panic once his dad phoned, only logical explanation!

[Hardy Boy]

But JB made the 3.15 call 'happen', Jane, surely he would have checked the time he made it if guilty? And surely he would have decided what to tell the police regarding whether he made the call before or after calling the police?
Nah, he was all over the place because he was in shock and panic once his dad phoned, only logical explanation!

He was in that much shock and panic, he didn’t call 999.

[Jane]

But JB made the 3.15 call 'happen', Jane, surely he would have checked the time he made it if guilty? And surely he would have decided what to tell the police regarding whether he made the call before or after calling the police?
Nah, he was all over the place because he was in shock and panic once his dad phoned, only logical explanation!

But he was able to tell Julie how long he'd been on the phone to her. I'm more inclined to think he got in a bit of a middle because he hadn't been telling the truth. He could only plan what he would do. He had no control over other's reactions to that.