Crime Scene Video?

[Adam]

The silencer was still around over 10 years later. It was the reason for the 2002 COA referral.

Things such as the bible and nightdress were probably disposed of after 10 years.

[Curiosity]

I agree.  The rules on how long they are retained for seems somewhat ambigious and vague.  I understand this is something that is being looked at along with changes to how the CCRC process applications.  Obviously doesn't help the likes of JB. 

Had the cartridge cases been retained it might have been possible to obtain fingerprints from them whereas it was difficult/impossible to do in 1985.

What was the name of that start-up company we had a look at years ago?  Did they go out of business?  The only one I can find now is this one but using a different machine/method -

https://downloads.fosterfreeman.com/brochures/uk/RECOVER_LFT-brochure.pdf

[Curiosity]

What was the name of that start-up company we had a look at years ago?  Did they go out of business?  The only one I can find now is this one but using a different machine/method -

https://downloads.fosterfreeman.com/brochures/uk/RECOVER_LFT-brochure.pdf

Found it -

The name's Bond, not James but John who invented the CERA system in 2011 and still in business it seems -

https://www.imveurope.com/news/fingerprints-firearm-cartridges-discerned-novel-lens-systsem

Data Sheet and U.S. Patent -

https://www.consolite.co.uk/Forensics/downloads/CERA%20Datasheet.pdf

https://patents.google.com/patent/US8142834

[Cambridgecutie]

Found it -

The name's Bond, not James but John who invented the CERA system in 2011 and still in business it seems -

https://www.imveurope.com/news/fingerprints-firearm-cartridges-discerned-novel-lens-systsem

Data Sheet and U.S. Patent -

https://www.consolite.co.uk/Forensics/downloads/CERA%20Datasheet.pdf

https://ppubs.uspto.gov/api/pdf/downloadPdf/8142834?requestToken=eyJzdWIiOiJlMjhiZmJlZC0wMmE3LTQ4MzQtOWY3NC1hYTJhMzlkMzc0MWUiLCJ2ZXIiOiI1MTMwYjg3Zi0yN2FjLTQ5ZTktYjI5Ny04M2I5OGM2NjNmNjAiLCJleHAiOjB9

Yes that's the one!  If only the cartridges were still available. 

[Cambridgecutie]

The silencer was still around over 10 years later. It was the reason for the 2002 COA referral.

Things such as the bible and nightdress were probably disposed of after 10 years.

I thought the silencer was still around?  In the EP museum?

165. In February 1996, the Essex police destroyed many of the original trial exhibits without reference to the appellant or his legal representatives. It might have been necessary for this court to examine the circumstances in which this had happened. The police officer responsible contended that it was done without his appreciating that there was any on-going legal process that might require the further use of the exhibits. However, during argument it was agreed that the court could protect the appellant's position by making assumptions in his favour and that, therefore, it was unnecessary to resolve precisely how this came about.

If the case gets back to CoA again an additional ground could be the new technology for fingerprints on cartridges.  Given the cartridges no longer exist then CoA would have to rule in JB's favour that SC's fingerprints were on them 

[Bubo bubo]

I thought the silencer was still around?  In the EP museum?

165. In February 1996, the Essex police destroyed many of the original trial exhibits without reference to the appellant or his legal representatives. It might have been necessary for this court to examine the circumstances in which this had happened. The police officer responsible contended that it was done without his appreciating that there was any on-going legal process that might require the further use of the exhibits. However, during argument it was agreed that the court could protect the appellant's position by making assumptions in his favour and that, therefore, it was unnecessary to resolve precisely how this came about.


If the case gets back to CoA again an additional ground could be the new technology for fingerprints on cartridges.  Given the cartridges no longer exist then CoA would have to rule in JB's favour that SC's fingerprints were on them 

A good and interesting point.

[lookout]

Well, a desicion is overdue from the CCRC I believe , Rob.
Is that a good sign I wonder?

After 3 years or thereabouts for the last one, all Hell broke loose with the boss leaving and nothing having been done. Do you remember, snow ?

[snow66!]

After 3 years or thereabouts for the last one, all Hell broke loose with the boss leaving and nothing having been done. Do you remember, snow ?

Yes, the current submission was sent to the ccrc in 2021 before I joined this forum, Lookout.
I thought a decision would be made by the ccrc soon after. But in a way maybe it has worked out for the best, I mean in the current climate after the shake-up concerning the Malkinson case.
It even says that JBs case is being 'reviewed' along with many others.
I mean, was there enough in the initial 2021 ccrc submission to gain JB a referral? Probably not?
Boyces Aga burn theory was added of course, and now the 'New Yorker' investigation claims that there is evidence of two silencers and the 6.09 call from inside the farm house, although if there was proof of a call surely JB would get an instant aquital? Although they may still be trying to get a further statement from pc Milbank, who knows!
Their claim of two silencers may hold more weight with new photographic evidence I believe, one silencer with yellow tape firmly attached by the superglue fumes used to show up fingerprints and the other silencer without tape, the one displayed by PC Whidden or whatever you call him!
Oh! and of course there's the recent whistleblower regarding the crime scene videos of course!
So, who knows Lookout, it doesn't look as if there is any forensic evidence remaining to free JB anyway, not like Malkinson.

[Rob_]

Yes, the current submission was sent to the ccrc in 2021 before I joined this forum, Lookout.
I thought a decision would be made by the ccrc soon after. But in a way maybe it has worked out for the best, I mean in the current climate after the shake-up concerning the Malkinson case.
It even says that JBs case is being 'reviewed' along with many others.
I mean, was there enough in the initial 2021 ccrc submission to gain JB a referral? Probably not?
Boyces Aga burn theory was added of course, and now the 'New Yorker' investigation claims that there is evidence of two silencers and the 6.09 call from inside the farm house, although if there was proof of a call surely JB would get an instant aquital? Although they may still be trying to get a further statement from pc Milbank, who knows!
Their claim of two silencers may hold more weight with new photographic evidence I believe, one silencer with yellow tape firmly attached by the superglue fumes used to show up fingerprints and the other silencer without tape, the one displayed by PC Whidden or whatever you call him!
Oh! and of course there's the recent whistleblower regarding the crime scene videos of course!
So, who knows Lookout, it doesn't look as if there is any forensic evidence remaining to free JB anyway, not like Malkinson.

It's pretty clear there were two silencers Snow, if you look at the sketches and dimensions.

One was not a Parker Hall.

[snow66!]

It's pretty clear there were two silencers Snow, if you look at the sketches and dimensions.

One was not a Parker Hall.

Thanks Rob, well lets hope they've finally proven this beyond doubt!

[Cambridgecutie]

It's pretty clear there were two silencers Snow, if you look at the sketches and dimensions.

One was not a Parker Hall.

Someone messaged me ages ago about the dimensions.  I pointed out the discrepancy was due to the fact one image was with the end cap and one without. 

Btw its Parker Hale.  Just sayin like 

[Rob_]

Someone messaged me ages ago about the dimensions.  I pointed out the discrepancy was due to the fact one image was with the end cap and one without. 

Btw its Parker Hale.  Just sayin like 

Some sketches show a groove in the middle (three in total) some just the end two.

[Cambridgecutie]

Some sketches show a groove in the middle (three in total) some just the end two.

Sketches or images as in photography?

[Rob_]

Sketches or images as in photography?

Sketches Cc

[Cambridgecutie]

Sketches Cc

So room for human error