Dr Ian Craig

[Cambridgecutie]

Dr Craig was the police surgeon who certified the deaths at WHF.  Based on his statement the times are as follows:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1187.0.html

8.10 - received a phone call requesting his attendance at WHF
8.25 - certified NB's death
8.44 - certified June's death
8.44 - certified SC's death
8.50 - certified twins' death

At trial he told the court:

38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night. The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted.

At the time of the murders/suicide he was circa 60 years of age and president of the Association of Police Surgeons.  Ie a highly experienced police surgeon.  What evidence exists to show that he was wrong? 

April 1985 copy of The Police Surgeon Supplement.  The president's letter at page 7 concludes:

As police surgeons we are justly proud of our independence and impartiality.  We represent truth and justice and it is our function to assist the court in matters medico-legal.

https://fflm.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/PSS-18-April-1985.pdf

[Jane]

Dr Craig was the police surgeon who certified the deaths at WHF.  Based on his statement the times are as follows:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1187.0.html

8.10 - received a phone call requesting his attendance at WHF
8.25 - certified NB's death
8.44 - certified June's death
8.44 - certified SC's death
8.50 - certified twins' death

At trial he told the court:

38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night. The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted.

At the time of the murders/suicide he was circa 60 years of age and president of the Association of Police Surgeons.  Ie a highly experienced police surgeon.  What evidence exists to show that he was wrong? 

April 1985 copy of The Police Surgeon Supplement.  The president's letter at page 7 concludes:

As police surgeons we are justly proud of our independence and impartiality.  We represent truth and justice and it is our function to assist the court in matters medico-legal.

https://fflm.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/PSS-18-April-1985.pdf

His competence was bought into question when a one time member here, with their own axe to grind, accused him of drinking on the job!

[Cambridgecutie]

His competence was bought into question when a one time member here, with their own axe to grind, accused him of drinking on the job!

In addition to the role of police surgeon he was also a local gp.  He was circa 60 yoa in 1985 and afaik no one reported him to the GMC for misconduct during his lengthy career.  And unless he was somewhat of a star it really begs the question how/why he became president of the Association of Police Surgeons. 

[Jane]

In addition to the role of police surgeon he was also a local gp.  He was circa 60 yoa in 1985 and afaik no one reported him to the GMC for misconduct during his lengthy career.  And unless he was somewhat of a star it really begs the question how/why he became president of the Association of Police Surgeons.

Name me any doctor who has the confidence of 100% of his patients, or a doctor who has never made a mistake in a diagnosis -indeed, it may be said, with some justification and no little irony, that doctors can bury their mistakes- such can give rise to very personal and ongoing vendettas. I can't imagine that Dr Craig was guilty of too many errors given his lofty status, however...................

[BarefootDanC]

Dr Craig was the police surgeon who certified the deaths at WHF.  Based on his statement the times are as follows:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1187.0.html

8.10 - received a phone call requesting his attendance at WHF
8.25 - certified NB's death
8.44 - certified June's death
8.44 - certified SC's death
8.50 - certified twins' death

At trial he told the court:

38. At 8.10 a.m., Dr Craig attended the scene to formally certify the deaths. In cross-examination at the trial he said the deaths could have occurred at any time during the previous night. The appearance of Sheila Caffell's body suggested to him that the wounds had been inflicted by her own hand. In answer to the judge the witness made it clear this was not an opinion the jury should rely upon as a true indication that the injuries had been self-inflicted.

At the time of the murders/suicide he was circa 60 years of age and president of the Association of Police Surgeons.  Ie a highly experienced police surgeon.  What evidence exists to show that he was wrong? 

April 1985 copy of The Police Surgeon Supplement.  The president's letter at page 7 concludes:

As police surgeons we are justly proud of our independence and impartiality.  We represent truth and justice and it is our function to assist the court in matters medico-legal.

https://fflm.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/PSS-18-April-1985.pdf

Is the transcript of the evidence he gave in court available?

[David1819]

Is the transcript of the evidence he gave in court available?

Since he only spent 25 minutes in WHF. I cannot imagine there would be much to read.

You can read his statement here.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3125.msg119799.html#msg119799

[Adam]

If he certified the deaths, the only interesting thing he could have said was Sheila's blood was still wet.

But CAL said that photo had been doctored by the CT.

[Cambridgecutie]

Is the transcript of the evidence he gave in court available?

If it is I haven't seen it.

[Cambridgecutie]

If he certified the deaths, the only interesting thing he could have said was Sheila's blood was still wet.

But CAL said that photo had been doctored by the CT.

It's an absolute nonsense to think that a police surgeon with some 4 decades of experience in the medical profession was incapable of identifying whether or not SC died significantly later than the other victims. 

What evidence exists that he was wrong?

[Adam]

It's an absolute nonsense to think that a police surgeon with some 4 decades of experience in the medical profession was incapable of identifying whether or not SC died significantly later than the other victims. 

What evidence exists that he was wrong?

The only way to tell would be if Sheila's blood was wet. Which it wasn't.

[Rob_]

It's an absolute nonsense to think that a police surgeon with some 4 decades of experience in the medical profession was incapable of identifying whether or not SC died significantly later than the other victims. 

What evidence exists that he was wrong?

There is clear lividity in Junes hands and none that I can see in Sheila's. To females of similar build in the same room etc.

Was the doctor asked to determine time of death? he gave a pretty open ended answer when asked.

[David1819]

There is clear lividity in Junes hands and none that I can see in Sheila's. To females of similar build in the same room etc.

Was the doctor asked to determine time of death? he gave a pretty open ended answer when asked.

No



It should have been done by Peter Vanezis according to Bernard Knights 5/9/86 witness statement

“In general, I have little criticism of the way in which Dr. Vanezis
conducted his post mortems, especially bearing in mind that he
had five cases to deal with in a short space of time. Perhaps the
major criticism would be his lack of any attempt to estimate the
time of death. I fully realise that this is a very inaccurate exercise,
but temperatures of bodies at the scene should have been taken
for completeness sake in case some very unusual result was
obtained. I realise that he was not called to the scene (or did not
arrive) until much later than is the usual practice of most Home
Office pathologists, but this is due to the different conditions which
pertain in and around London. Also his description of the actual
external appearance of the bullet wounds are perhaps not as full as
one would like, in terms of description of exact size, extent and
appearance of powder marks, burns, abrasion colour etc., but
again he was undoubtedly working under pressure. In general the
examinations were quite adequate.”

[Adam]

Both sides have to agree Sheila was dead before the police arrived.

There is no evidence she engaged with the police or was seen by anyone outside.

[Cambridgecutie]

There is clear lividity in Junes hands and none that I can see in Sheila's. To females of similar build in the same room etc.

Was the doctor asked to determine time of death? he gave a pretty open ended answer when asked.

You are not thinking it through!

Dr Craig was an expert for the defence.  If he observed any differences between the victims that supported SC died significantly later he would say as much.  Prof Knight was an expert for the defence.  If he observed, from images, any differences between the victims that supported SC died significantly later he would say as much. 

TOD is not an exact science or something you can set your watch by. 

[Rob_]

You are not thinking it through!

Dr Craig was an expert for the defence.  If he observed any differences between the victims that supported SC died significantly later he would say as much.  Prof Knight was an expert for the defence.  If he observed, from images, any differences between the victims that supported SC died significantly later he would say as much. 

TOD is not an exact science or something you can set your watch by.

I agree TOD is not an exact science, but in this case we are talking about a max difference of 4 hours between Sheila and the other victims.

I would like to see an impartial report from a expert looking at the photos of June and Sheila.

I have eyes Cc and they tell me Sheila died latter.