Author Topic: Police Fitting Up Suspects  (Read 13497 times)

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Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #300 on: October 12, 2024, 09:20:PM »

It has often been claimed that nothing JB told police had any bearing on the case. It's been claimed that police wouldn't have taken any notice of it. No one seems to believe in the power of suggestion. I think the power of JB's suggestion was probably the the reason Taff thought 25 minutes was long enough to spend at the crime scene.
As a senior lead Detective in charge of a Major crime scene Jane, he didn’t do it justice in my opinion and it’s shared by others in a better position than me, it’s the way it was run as well not just his wrong call in the first place, to call it murder suicide within 25 mins to his officers/soco stops any kind of thorough investigation, it halts the process of being objective looking for evidence and your staff then go into let’s rap it up mode, he didn’t want Patholigist, he didn’t want ballistics, he didn’t want a full house search he didn’t want a full fingerprint of the house, he couldn’t even be bothered to go to the Autopsy, as far as his staff are concerned its case closed and your enthusiasm goes and they don’t look for clues.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2024, 09:23:PM by Hardy Boy »

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #301 on: October 13, 2024, 12:41:AM »
As a senior lead Detective in charge of a Major crime scene Jane, he didn’t do it justice in my opinion and it’s shared by others in a better position than me, it’s the way it was run as well not just his wrong call in the first place, to call it murder suicide within 25 mins to his officers/soco stops any kind of thorough investigation, it halts the process of being objective looking for evidence and your staff then go into let’s rap it up mode, he didn’t want Patholigist, he didn’t want ballistics, he didn’t want a full house search he didn’t want a full fingerprint of the house, he couldn’t even be bothered to go to the Autopsy, as far as his staff are concerned its case closed and your enthusiasm goes and they don’t look for clues.

If the police had something to hide the last thing they would need would be forensic experts such as pathologists and ballistics specialists crawling around and closely examining the crime scene. Nor would they want WHF fingerprinted. Who knows what would happen if they found prints of people from the police or other actors that should not be in some of the places where they were found. The sheer number of individuals who traipsed through the premises also made it a waste of time. All those who did enter would have to be printed for elimination purposes. That does not include the members of staff and any other visitors who had been in the house including the telephone engineer.
I do not see why not attending the autopsy is a black mark. He had a meeting planned with Vanezis and many others at WHF (08/08/85) as we know from PV's statements. The case would not be hampered in any way by waiting   (24 hours) till PV had the pics and delivered his main conclusions. Taff would be unlikely to learn anything at autopsy which was time critical and we do not know what other issues were being dealt with  on this or any other cases in his in tray.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2024, 10:27:AM by Bubo bubo »

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #302 on: October 13, 2024, 06:48:AM »
If the police had something to hide the last thing they would need would be forensic experts such as pathologists and ballistics specialists crawling around and closely examining the crime scene. Nor would they want WHF fingerprinted. Who knows what would happen if they found prints of people from the police or other actors that should not be in some of the places where they were found. The sheer number of individuals who traipsed through the premises also made it a waste of time. All those who did enter would have to be printed for elimination purposes. That does not include the members of staff and any other visitors who had been in the house including the telephone engineer.
I do not see why not attending the autopsy is a black mark. He had a meeting planned with Vanezis and many others at WHF (08/07/85) as we know from PV's statements. The case would not be hampered in any way by waiting   (24 hours) till PV had the pics and delivered his main conclusions. Taff would be unlikely to learn anything at autopsy which was time critical and we do not know what other issues were being dealt with  on this or any other cases in his in tray.
Yes it's a shame TAFF wasn't there long enough to conduct a thorough investigation as Senior crime scene officer in charge of overseeing the investigation of 5 murders, instead of calling it Suicide after a brief 25 minute stop over.

 It's exactly what iv'e said, once TAFF called it Suicide, the murder inquiry stopped, [although Soco would not admit it, they just went through the motions] you simply just don't get it, TAFF didn't do justice for JB and he didn't do justice for the victims.  JB might not have been convicted if TAFF had done his Job properly, Patholigist, Ballistics Fingerprints, bioligst, all might have found something AT the crime scene that helped JB, a full search of the premises would have located the silencer before any relative got heir hands on it, and this is what probably sent Bamber down.  Vanezis states he could have formed a different view if he had been called to the scene, he also states that a Ballistics expert should have attended both at the scene and at the Morgue.



Search and examination of White House Farm 54. The senior police officers who attended the scene, led in the initial stages by DCI Jones (who died in May 1986), came quickly to the view that Sheila Caffell had murdered her parents and children before committing suicide. Inevitably this had an impact upon the nature and thoroughness of the searches and examination of the farmhouse.

Your Bravado of TAFF spotting JM was lying eventually after four weeks in the investigation, just about sums this guy up......... guess what,  SJ spotted she was lying after two day's, and Guess what, who wouldn't believe SJ when he relayed his feelings.  That's why Stan called Miller before the Meeting at WHF because he knew Julie Mugford was lying.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4985.0;attach=35033;image



He knocked Down any queries raised with what appeared to be VALIED reasoning, was the word Cook used.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2024, 07:46:AM by Hardy Boy »

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #303 on: October 13, 2024, 07:03:AM »
If the police had something to hide the last thing they would need would be forensic experts such as pathologists and ballistics specialists crawling around and closely examining the crime scene. Nor would they want WHF fingerprinted. Who knows what would happen if they found prints of people from the police or other actors that should not be in some of the places where they were found. The sheer number of individuals who traipsed through the premises also made it a waste of time. All those who did enter would have to be printed for elimination purposes. That does not include the members of staff and any other visitors who had been in the house including the telephone engineer.
I do not see why not attending the autopsy is a black mark. He had a meeting planned with Vanezis and many others at WHF (08/07/85) as we know from PV's statements. The case would not be hampered in any way by waiting   (24 hours) till PV had the pics and delivered his main conclusions. Taff would be unlikely to learn anything at autopsy which was time critical and we do not know what other issues were being dealt with  on this or any other cases in his in tray.
Here we go again that same old same old, so in that respect it was your man TAFF hiding something then, because it was his decison for these Experts not to attend or to do a full house search.

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #304 on: October 13, 2024, 08:07:AM »
How many times must I tell you that Divisional commander Harris was the SIO. He made the call. He arrived at 07.39 and left with Taff at 09.34. Taff met Harris at 09.05. Taff briefed the SOCO team and other local officers. He would not countermand a senior officers verdict.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1622.0.html
I have never said Senior officers were anything other than Shit, Harris doesn't mention that he made the call it was Suicide to Taff in his statement does he?   He had a Brief chat with TAFF that's all, Taff made the call when he had done his 25 mins walk about, once TAFF made the call and the procedure he was taking, Harris had to back him up, even when Miller approached Harris Later about things not right, he still backed TAFF.  My word and the Judges word Perfuncory was aimed at ALL the senior officers and not just TAFF.


Offline Jane

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #305 on: October 13, 2024, 10:13:AM »
Great posting, HB!!

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #306 on: October 13, 2024, 10:50:AM »
Yes it's a shame TAFF wasn't there long enough to conduct a thorough investigation as Senior crime scene officer in charge of overseeing the investigation of 5 murders, instead of calling it Suicide after a brief 25 minute stop over.

 It's exactly what iv'e said, once TAFF called it Suicide, the murder inquiry stopped, [although Soco would not admit it, they just went through the motions] you simply just don't get it, TAFF didn't do justice for JB and he didn't do justice for the victims.  JB might not have been convicted if TAFF had done his Job properly, Patholigist, Ballistics Fingerprints, bioligst, all might have found something AT the crime scene that helped JB, a full search of the premises would have located the silencer before any relative got heir hands on it, and this is what probably sent Bamber down.  Vanezis states he could have formed a different view if he had been called to the scene, he also states that a Ballistics expert should have attended both at the scene and at the Morgue.



Search and examination of White House Farm 54. The senior police officers who attended the scene, led in the initial stages by DCI Jones (who died in May 1986), came quickly to the view that Sheila Caffell had murdered her parents and children before committing suicide. Inevitably this had an impact upon the nature and thoroughness of the searches and examination of the farmhouse.

Your Bravado of TAFF spotting JM was lying eventually after four weeks in the investigation, just about sums this guy up......... guess what,  SJ spotted she was lying after two day's, and Guess what, who wouldn't believe SJ when he relayed his feelings.  That's why Stan called Miller before the Meeting at WHF because he knew Julie Mugford was lying.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4985.0;attach=35033;image



He knocked Down any queries raised with what appeared to be VALIED reasoning, was the word Cook used.

Now you are making stuff up or relying on the word of SBJ. How did he know that JM was lying. The police met after the final autopsy on the 08/08/85. JM went to identify the bodies on the same day at 16.35 and then gave a statement to Clark which did not finish until 18.15. If SBJ was at the meeting with PV and others it is impossible for him to have met JM before the meeting, other than perhaps routine pleasantries exchanged at Goldhanger. How could he know she was lying before she had even given her first statement. He was at the meeting at 16.00 hrs while JM was on her way to the mortuary.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #307 on: October 13, 2024, 10:58:AM »
I have never said Senior officers were anything other than Shit, Harris doesn't mention that he made the call it was Suicide to Taff in his statement does he?   He had a Brief chat with TAFF that's all, Taff made the call when he had done his 25 mins walk about, once TAFF made the call and the procedure he was taking, Harris had to back him up, even when Miller approached Harris Later about things not right, he still backed TAFF.  My word and the Judges word Perfuncory was aimed at ALL the senior officers and not just TAFF.

This makes no sense. Harris was in a car with Taff as they travelled from WHF to the GPO meeting. Do you not think that they discussed the case or were they chatting about the weather. Harris did not have to back him up he was his boss. He had also been at the scene for about an hour and a half before Taff arrived. Are you asking us to believe that he had not come to his own conclusions but was just waiting for Taff to make the call.

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #308 on: October 13, 2024, 11:27:AM »
Now you are making stuff up or relying on the word of SBJ. How did he know that JM was lying. The police met after the final autopsy on the 08/08/85. JM went to identify the bodies on the same day at 16.35 and then gave a statement to Clark which did not finish until 18.15. If SBJ was at the meeting with PV and others it is impossible for him to have met JM before the meeting, other than perhaps routine pleasantries exchanged at Goldhanger. How could he know she was lying before she had even given her first statement. He was at the meeting at 16.00 hrs while JM was on her way to the mortuary.
I don't make stuff like you, put your beak in that for half hour, and get to know the case better.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=19644;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=19645;image

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #309 on: October 13, 2024, 11:28:AM »
This makes no sense. Harris was in a car with Taff as they travelled from WHF to the GPO meeting. Do you not think that they discussed the case or were they chatting about the weather. Harris did not have to back him up he was his boss. He had also been at the scene for about an hour and a half before Taff arrived. Are you asking us to believe that he had not come to his own conclusions but was just waiting for Taff to make the call.
Imaterial, he made the call suicide before he got in the car.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #310 on: October 13, 2024, 11:49:AM »
Imaterial, he made the call suicide before he got in the car.

That is pure assumption on your part with no evidence. Harris was the SIO and he would be responsible for the call. He backed Taff's operation.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #311 on: October 13, 2024, 12:55:PM »
I don't make stuff like you, put your beak in that for half hour, and get to know the case better.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=19644;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=19645;image

Once again you are relying on the internal whitewash delivered by Dickinson. Parts of this are pure lies. Clark and SBJ did not go to lunch. DRB and Julie bought them lunch according to AE in her witness statement (08-13/08/85. If they returned at 14.30 that left little time for SBJ to quiz SM since they both  would have had to left before 15.45 to get to the WHF meeting.

How did SBJ know about JM's call at 03.30 since she had yet to make a statement and even then she would have told him little because there was doubt in her mind about this timing as evidenced by her and SB's statements and Julies attempts post statement. to get the precise timing and her call to SB which was taken by Helen Eaton.

Do not rely on your understanding of the case by reference to the 'Crock of shit' that was produced by an internal enquiry. I will not respond to any of your posts which uses this rubbish.

We have no statement from Clark to confirm his recollection of events.

From JM's major statement 08/09/85

I have since spoken to Susan and I feel sure that she told me the time that Jeremy phoned was 3:12am.

This is further evidence that JM's first statement 08/08/85 was tweaked to say the call was at 03.30
« Last Edit: October 13, 2024, 01:19:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #312 on: October 13, 2024, 01:50:PM »
That is pure assumption on your part with no evidence. Harris was the SIO and he would be responsible for the call. He backed Taff's operation.
Not my assumption, it's a fact

 The senior police officers who attended the scene, led in the initial stages by DCI Jones (who died in May 1986), came quickly to the view that Sheila Caffell had murdered her parents and children before committing suicide. Inevitably this had an impact upon the nature and thoroughness of the searches and examination of the farmhouse.

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #313 on: October 13, 2024, 02:33:PM »
Once again you are relying on the internal whitewash delivered by Dickinson. Parts of this are pure lies. Clark and SBJ did not go to lunch. DRB and Julie bought them lunch according to AE in her witness statement (08-13/08/85. If they returned at 14.30 that left little time for SBJ to quiz SM since they both  would have had to left before 15.45 to get to the WHF meeting.

How did SBJ know about JM's call at 03.30 since she had yet to make a statement and even then she would have told him little because there was doubt in her mind about this timing as evidenced by her and SB's statements and Julies attempts post statement. to get the precise timing and her call to SB which was taken by Helen Eaton.

Do not rely on your understanding of the case by reference to the 'Crock of shit' that was produced by an internal enquiry. I will not respond to any of your posts which uses this rubbish.

We have no statement from Clark to confirm his recollection of events.

From JM's major statement 08/09/85

I have since spoken to Susan and I feel sure that she told me the time that Jeremy phoned was 3:12am.

This is further evidence that JM's first statement 08/08/85 was tweaked to say the call was at 03.30
Read parts from D to F. Jones states he did leave and he returned and Bamber had gone, he returned to speak to the relatives and to speak to JM.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=417.0;attach=22790;image

Now be educated

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4596.0;attach=33744;image

DS Jones and DC cLark, 1.45pm leave head street and Lunch at Chequers Goldhanger, discussing Jeremy's reaction, in a nutshell it had changed from the day before, Oh and wait for it, over lunch Stan Say's he's going to interview Julie on her own, meaning Jeremy had gone to the Solicitors and this was his chance to have a go at Julie, ...............later he say's 2.30pm, i interviewed Julie about the Phone calls she had recieved from Jeremy ETC..............................Oh but wait, after he interviewed Julie at 3.30pm. he gets on the Phone and calls DC Miller, he tells Miller he couldn't speak on the phone but, he was unhappy...............And guess what it matches exactly what the Dickenson report Say's, you know the piece of evidence you like to trash.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4596.0;attach=33748;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=19645;image

I ask anyone to read both pieces of evidence and see if i am making things up, it's obvious to me Bubo is well out of his League and does't have a clue, yet he try's to pull posters up giving their HONEST and not made up opinion. 

I'm certain, if TAFF hadn't called it Suicide straight away, the investigfation would have been carried out differently, he stopped the process of a murder investigation and changed it into a formallity, he didn't in my opinion do Jeremy Bamber any favours whatsoever, he probably lost evidence that could have cleared Jeremy and he left the scene then to be contaminated.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2024, 04:30:PM by Hardy Boy »

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Police Fitting Up Suspects
« Reply #314 on: October 13, 2024, 02:48:PM »
Once again you are relying on the internal whitewash delivered by Dickinson. Parts of this are pure lies. Clark and SBJ did not go to lunch. DRB and Julie bought them lunch according to AE in her witness statement (08-13/08/85. If they returned at 14.30 that left little time for SBJ to quiz SM since they both  would have had to left before 15.45 to get to the WHF meeting.

How did SBJ know about JM's call at 03.30 since she had yet to make a statement and even then she would have told him little because there was doubt in her mind about this timing as evidenced by her and SB's statements and Julies attempts post statement. to get the precise timing and her call to SB which was taken by Helen Eaton.

Do not rely on your understanding of the case by reference to the 'Crock of shit' that was produced by an internal enquiry. I will not respond to any of your posts which uses this rubbish.

We have no statement from Clark to confirm his recollection of events.

From JM's major statement 08/09/85

I have since spoken to Susan and I feel sure that she told me the time that Jeremy phoned was 3:12am.

This is further evidence that JM's first statement 08/08/85 was tweaked to say the call was at 03.30
Again unlike you i do my research, i can't always find it straight away, but

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5671.0;attach=37475;image

I don't always just rely on one piece of Evidence, i do try to cross check things before i post, but i do try to check that if someone posts something, the evidence is there