Author Topic: Silencer: If Sheila's blood was planted what about David & Pamela's blood group?  (Read 11003 times)

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Offline Hardy Boy

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I have to Admit Cutie, you might have a time slot that i have found, i can't quite read all of it, mabe someone else can, but it seems Stan didn't finish work till Friday evening at 11.15pm, i can't quite make this out or he was just hading them or collecting them?  Doesn't mean he was upto something, i don't know if Taff was with him also, but................This was on the 9th of Aug

I think after enlarging it, he's gone to hand the keys over to Anne at Oak Farm, and finished at 11.15pm?  He's said all Police examination completed

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4596.0;attach=33758;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4596.0;attach=33760;image
Right, what i can make out, after the meeting between Taff and Stan with Jeremy on the 9th of August, they left about 9.00pm, i think at this stage Taff was happy with what Jeremy had said and told Stan as such.  It was decided to Hand the Keys over to Anne, and the house was ready, so a call was made and it was arranged to meet at WHF, PE attended with her, it was to Hand the Keys over and Show the Alarm System.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1923.0;attach=9564;image

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1923.0;attach=9565;image

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1923.0;attach=9566;image

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1923.0;attach=24615;image

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1923.0;attach=24617;image

Offline Cambridgecutie

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August 7th

DC Clarke tells Ann Eaton that Nevills body was found by the AGA near the mantle shelf.

August 8th:

Ann Eaton takes Julie to the mortuary and notes down Nevills injuries after talking to Julie.

Jeremy provides a witness statement saying he left the rifle in the kitchen without the silencer on.

August 9th:

After visiting the accountant, Jeremy asks Ann Eaton to pay back the loan for the farmland that she is living on. In order to pay death duties.

Ann Eaton visits WHF with DCI and DS Jones. While there she would have seen the blue coat obscuring a certain area of the mantle shelf.

August 10th:

Relatives visit WHF again and collected the silencer and also take back home Sheila's blood stained clothing. David Boutflour does not recall seeing any blood, paint or hair on the silencer while at WHF at this stage.

Ann Eaton contacts Whitam police station about the silencer later that evening. It stays in Ann bedroom cupboard for the next two days.

August 13th:

Stan Jones collects the silencer and gives it to DI Cook.

August 14th:

Ann Eaton alerts DI Cook to the scratch marks under the mantle shelf.


The above events are all factual. Not speculative.

Factoring in the conflicting statements, testimony and lies she told.  It can be inferred that it was Ann Eaton who fabricated the silencer.

But you're doing what you always do: seeing connections that only exist in your mind.  You did the same with your so-called 'forensic evidence breakthrough'.  You saw meaning in shapes that again only existed in your mind.

You completely misunderstand the blood evidence.  You are either unable or unwilling, probably because you are wedded to your theory above, to accept scientific facts.  In 1985 forensics were only able to produce blood groupings if the material they had to work with ie blood had not been 'environmentally insulted' and was of sufficient quantity.  AE did not have access to such material.  Sheila's menstrual stained knickers soaking in a bucket of water for some 3 days had been 'environmentally insulted' and the quantity was near zero it was so diluted. 
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

All goals from Lionesses Euro 2025:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQq5gnwGjs

Offline Cambridgecutie

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" the answer is in the documents "

Jeremy Bamber 2010.

?
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

All goals from Lionesses Euro 2025:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQq5gnwGjs

Offline Cambridgecutie

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Regardless, that's pretty much what his role was and given that Bamber was eventually snared and convicted - the only internal inquiry, was how the case was messed up from day one and Bamber almost got away with it.

The Dickinson inquiry could have singled out DS Jones for praise but nothing of the sort.  And his career ended through retirement in 1991 still a DS. 

There was also COLP and Stokenchurch. 
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

All goals from Lionesses Euro 2025:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQq5gnwGjs

Offline Cambridgecutie

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I have to Admit Cutie, you might have a time slot that i have found, i can't quite read all of it, mabe someone else can, but it seems Stan didn't finish work till Friday evening at 11.15pm, i can't quite make this out or he was just hading them or collecting them?  Doesn't mean he was upto something, i don't know if Taff was with him also, but................This was on the 9th of Aug

I think after enlarging it, he's gone to hand the keys over to Anne at Oak Farm, and finished at 11.15pm?  He's said all Police examination completed

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4596.0;attach=33758;image

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4596.0;attach=33760;image

If you refer to AE's wit stats she met DS Jones and DCI Jones at WHF as the light was fading.  She said there was no need to turn the kitchen light on.  PE was also with her.  Anyway it matters not he had the wherewithal and opportunity to enter during the hours of darkness regardless of his shift finishing at 11.15pm.
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

All goals from Lionesses Euro 2025:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQq5gnwGjs

Online ILB

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Well as ILB said he clearly wasn't FLO material with his comment to JB telling him to accept the fact his family are dead only minutes after being told.  And as ILB said today, he would be put on sandwich duty and the comment would trigger an internal inquiry.

This was policing in the 70s and 80s. How times have changed!

1984. 16. St James Park Newcastle I was arrested at half time during a football match for " behaviour likely to cause breach of the peace, I was built like a matchstick. This is a one of many instances in my memories of police in the 80s ( although most of my trouble was with south yorkshire police back then )On the way to the police station two constables kicked me incessantly. Jeering, jiving etc etc. Once we got the custody suite I complained to the desk sergeant what had happened, merely peered over at me, and then just carried on with paperwork before a cell was allocated.  This is just how it was. It was pretty much carte blanche.
If yesterday you hated me. Then today you can not stop the love that binds from me to you. And you to me

Online ILB

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I do believe had Jeremy Bamber in this case had been of a "lower end background" he may have been treated very differently in interview and overall to be honest.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2024, 10:08:PM by ILB »
If yesterday you hated me. Then today you can not stop the love that binds from me to you. And you to me

Offline Cambridgecutie

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August 7th

DC Clarke tells Ann Eaton that Nevills body was found by the AGA near the mantle shelf.

August 8th:

Ann Eaton takes Julie to the mortuary and notes down Nevills injuries after talking to Julie.

Jeremy provides a witness statement saying he left the rifle in the kitchen without the silencer on.

August 9th:

After visiting the accountant, Jeremy asks Ann Eaton to pay back the loan for the farmland that she is living on. In order to pay death duties.

Ann Eaton visits WHF with DCI and DS Jones. While there she would have seen the blue coat obscuring a certain area of the mantle shelf.

August 10th:

Relatives visit WHF again and collected the silencer and also take back home Sheila's blood stained clothing. David Boutflour does not recall seeing any blood, paint or hair on the silencer while at WHF at this stage.

Ann Eaton contacts Whitam police station about the silencer later that evening. It stays in Ann bedroom cupboard for the next two days.

August 13th:

Stan Jones collects the silencer and gives it to DI Cook.

August 14th:

Ann Eaton alerts DI Cook to the scratch marks under the mantle shelf.


The above events are all factual. Not speculative.

Factoring in the conflicting statements, testimony and lies she told.  It can be inferred that it was Ann Eaton who fabricated the silencer.

According to AE's trial testimony the bloodstained clothing went in the kitchen bin at Oak Farm.  The jury was aware AE had access to SC's mesntrual stained knickers

Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

All goals from Lionesses Euro 2025:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQq5gnwGjs

Online snow66!

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According to AE's trial testimony the bloodstained clothing went in the kitchen bin at Oak Farm.  The jury was aware AE had access to SC's mesntrual stained knickers
A bit careless of the police to leave blood stained clothing for JB to find Cutie!
Not very nice for the poor chap!

Offline Zoso

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A bit careless of the police to leave blood stained clothing for JB to find Cutie!
Not very nice for the poor chap!

Huh? They were in the buckets and nothing to do with the murders!

Offline David1819

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I uploaded the 2002 appeal judgment to Claude 3.5 AI and asked it "If the silencer in the Jeremy Bamber case is a fabrication. Who was most likely responsible for its contamination? The police or the extended family?"

This is what it produced.


"The following points are essential in evaluating the question of potential contamination and the responsibility for any such contamination:

Key Points to Consider:

The Discovery by the Family:

The silencer was discovered by David Boutflour in the gun cupboard on 10 August 1985, several days after the murders, and witnessed by other family members.

The fact that the family, not the police, found the silencer raises questions about whether it was tampered with or mishandled between the discovery and the point at which it was turned over to the police.

Handling by the Family:

After being found, the silencer was taken to Ann Eaton's home for "safekeeping." During this period, members of the family examined it and noted what they perceived as damage to the surface, red paint, and blood.

The family examining the silencer without forensic supervision could have resulted in unintentional contamination. Without proper protective measures, handling could have transferred biological material onto the object.

Blood and Paint Observations:

The family observed red paint and what appeared to be blood, and when it was later examined by police, blood was confirmed, but there was insufficient quantity for grouping analysis. This raises doubts about the significance of the blood traces and whether they were present from the start or introduced during handling.

Loss of Key Evidence (Grey Hair):

A grey hair, about an inch long, was noted by DS Jones upon collection but was lost before it reached the Forensic Science Service. This loss of potentially vital evidence highlights potential mishandling or a lapse in the police's chain of custody, which further complicates determining the origins of the contamination.
Timing and Chain of Custody:

The silencer was recovered on 10 August but not collected by the police until 12 August, leaving a window of time during which the family had full access to it. This gap in the chain of custody between discovery and forensic analysis presents an opportunity for accidental or deliberate contamination.

Analysis:

Given the facts presented, two main considerations stand out:

Family's Access and Handling: The family’s involvement in both discovering and examining the silencer, without immediate police oversight, creates the possibility of unintentional contamination. The family members who were suspicious of Jeremy Bamber could also have been motivated, consciously or unconsciously, to interpret or present evidence in a way that pointed toward his guilt. If the silencer had red paint and blood on it when they found it, handling it could have disturbed or altered these traces.

Police Mishandling: The loss of the grey hair, the fact that there was only a small amount of blood that couldn't be grouped, and potential issues with the chain of custody also point to possible police mishandling or oversight. The grey hair, if retained, could have been crucial in determining the involvement of Sheila Caffell or Jeremy Bamber. The police might have compounded issues by failing to safeguard critical evidence after collection.

Conclusion:
Based on the judgment, the extended family’s initial handling of the silencer poses a more significant risk of contamination before the police took possession of it. While the police's loss of evidence (the grey hair) and gaps in proper forensic procedures are concerning, the opportunity for contamination seems highest when the silencer was in the possession of the family, examined without forensic expertise, and stored outside of police control.

That said, it's important to consider that any mishandling, whether by the family or the police, could have compromised the integrity of the evidence.
"
« Last Edit: October 02, 2024, 03:12:AM by David1819 »

Offline Hardy Boy

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This was policing in the 70s and 80s. How times have changed!

1984. 16. St James Park Newcastle I was arrested at half time during a football match for " behaviour likely to cause breach of the peace, I was built like a matchstick. This is a one of many instances in my memories of police in the 80s ( although most of my trouble was with south yorkshire police back then )On the way to the police station two constables kicked me incessantly. Jeering, jiving etc etc. Once we got the custody suite I complained to the desk sergeant what had happened, merely peered over at me, and then just carried on with paperwork before a cell was allocated.  This is just how it was. It was pretty much carte blanche.
I agree ILB, they did and got away with anything, they were never held to account.  Not many Police were sacked for Misconduct in those days.

Offline Hardy Boy

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If you refer to AE's wit stats she met DS Jones and DCI Jones at WHF as the light was fading.  She said there was no need to turn the kitchen light on.  PE was also with her.  Anyway it matters not he had the wherewithal and opportunity to enter during the hours of darkness regardless of his shift finishing at 11.15pm.
What, like through the Kitchen window when everyone had gone?

Offline Cambridgecutie

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According to AE's trial testimony the bloodstained clothing went in the kitchen bin at Oak Farm.  The jury was aware AE had access to SC's mesntrual stained knickers

I made a mistake above by referring to Oak Farm when in fact it was WHF.  According to AE's trial testimony the bloodstained clothing went in the kitchen bin at WHF and was not taken to Oak Farm as David claims.
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

All goals from Lionesses Euro 2025:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQq5gnwGjs

Offline Hardy Boy

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I uploaded the 2002 appeal judgment to Claude 3.5 AI and asked it "If the silencer in the Jeremy Bamber case is a fabrication. Who was most likely responsible for its contamination? The police or the extended family?"

This is what it produced.




Conclusion:
Based on the judgment, the extended family’s initial handling of the silencer poses a more significant risk of contamination before the police took possession of it. While the police's loss of evidence (the grey hair) and gaps in proper forensic procedures are concerning, the opportunity for contamination seems highest when the silencer was in the possession of the family, examined without forensic expertise, and stored outside of police control.

That said, it's important to consider that any mishandling, whether by the family or the police, could have compromised the integrity of the evidence.[/b][/i][/size]"
I would agree more with this than the accusation what Cutie made, there are a lot of Red Flags for me regarding the Families possesion of the silencer, not so much the finding, but the actual length of time they had it in their Possesion?  Some could possibly be explained away by the fact the Police wasn't interested though.

Cutie's accusation about Stan just doesn't hold up, she changed from Stan doing the deed in the Office, to now saying Stan went in at night and Fabricated the silencer.