Silencer: If Sheila's blood was planted what about David & Pamela's blood group?

[Bubo bubo]

That's not what PL stated in his report.  There were no tiny/minuscule droplets found by PL inside the silencer.  There was nothing visible. 

Weak or very weak positive reactions for blood which could have indicated the presence of blood were detectable on the collar ring and the first 8 baffle plates.  These reactions were all weak and there was no blood clearly visible to the naked eye.  Such findings could be consistent with an item having been previously swabbed by a forensic scientist to remove bloodstains for testing

OK Poor phrasing on my part. So what caused these other weak findings which were found it seems throughout the length of the SM and on 8 baffle plates. You also have ignored other findings that there were two SM's involved which has been  well researched. I believe they form part of the latest submission. You accuse me of overcomplicating things. I find yours an over simplification. The framing of JB was not the work of one malicious DS.

[Cambridgecutie]

Can understand cohesion about the threats to mugford. But the hair and blood on the silencer? What are you suggesting Jones did?

Contaminated the silencer to incriminate Bamber to fit his theory.  It is what coppers did in that era. 

[Cambridgecutie]

OK Poor phrasing on my part. So what caused these other weak findings which were found it seems throughout the length of the SM and on 8 baffle plates. You also have ignored other findings that there were two SM's involved which has been  well researched. I believe they form part of the latest submission. You accuse me of overcomplicating things. I find yours an over simplification. The framing of JB was not the work of one malicious DS.

Definition of word 'could' is 'possibility'. 

I am totally uninterested in 2 silencers or even more than 2!  I am interested in the silencer that was the subject of the trial SBJ/1 and more importantly blood said to have been found inside and the set of test results.

Agree the framing was not the work of one malicious DS.  It was the work of one malicious DS and the FSS at Huntingdon. 

The simplest explanations are the best.  Your absurd theories about blue socks, phone calls, Jean Rowe etc are absolute nonsense.

[ILB]

Contaminated the silencer to incriminate Bamber to fit his theory.  It is what coppers did in that era.

I often wondered if DS Jones felt unhappy that he wasn't inspector. Purely speculative. He may have felt stunted at being as DS. He wanst a spring chicken by police force career means. Pushing 50 at the time of the Bamber case

Maybe he saw this as his shining moment.

Would a relative and him sharing a few whiskeys swing him in a full " get Bamber stance " though?

[ILB]

Contaminated the silencer to incriminate Bamber to fit his theory.  It is what coppers did in that era.

Big risk to take though to frame a guy who was seen as a bereaved relative. And soon to be a wealthy one. If it had gone tit's up he would be fucked.

Do you believe he was offered money by the relatives?

[Cambridgecutie]

Big risk to take though to frame a guy who was seen as a bereaved relative. And soon to be a wealthy one. If it had gone tit's up he would be fucked.

Do you believe he was offered money by the relatives?

How would it go tit's up?  He had an opportunity to be alone inside WHF and contaminate the silencer with blood, paint and a hair.  He was experienced enough to know what he could get away with.  I would not mind betting he got up to all sorts all the time.  What happened to the contents of NB's wallet? 

I do not have any firm views on the relatives incentivising him.  Its just a thought when I think about DS Jones' motivation.  He probably just liked playing 'God'. I've transcribed his contribution to 'Killing mum and dad'.  I'll post it up.

[ILB]

How would it go tit's up?  He had an opportunity to be alone inside WHF and contaminate the silencer with blood, paint and a hair.  He was experienced enough to know what he could get away with.  I would not mind betting he got up to all sorts all the time.  What happened to the contents of NB's wallet? 

I do not have any firm views on the relatives incentivising him.  Its just a thought when I think about DS Jones' motivation.  He probably just liked playing 'God'. I've transcribed his contribution to 'Killing mum and dad'.  I'll post it up.

Very easily.

His malpractice being discovered prior.

Even if it wasn't and Bamber was charged.

A not gulity verdict being recorded.

Bamber taking legal action post trial.

Bamber going to the media

An internal inquiry or external inquiry taking place

DS Jones being uncovered

DS Jones being charged

DS Jones being convicted

DS Jones being imprisoned

DS Jones being fired.

DS Jones losing his livelihood and freedom

DS Jones being plunged into financial difficulty as a disgraced ex copper trying to frame an innocent bereaved relative.

[Zoso]

How would it go tit's up?  He had an opportunity to be alone inside WHF and contaminate the silencer with blood, paint and a hair.  He was experienced enough to know what he could get away with.  I would not mind betting he got up to all sorts all the time.  What happened to the contents of NB's wallet? 

I do not have any firm views on the relatives incentivising him.  Its just a thought when I think about DS Jones' motivation.  He probably just liked playing 'God'. I've transcribed his contribution to 'Killing mum and dad'.  I'll post it up.

Why would you suggest that Jones would have taken it?

[Cambridgecutie]

Very easily.

His malpractice being discovered prior.

Even if it wasn't and Bamber was charged.

A not gulity verdict being recorded.

Bamber taking legal action post trial.

Bamber going to the media

An internal inquiry or external inquiry taking place

DS Jones being uncovered

DS Jones being charged

DS Jones being convicted

DS Jones being imprisoned

DS Jones being fired.

DS Jones losing his livelihood and freedom

DS Jones being plunged into financial difficulty as a disgraced ex copper trying to frame an innocent bereaved relative.

I don't understand how it could possibly go tits up as you put it?  It was in era pre DNA and digitalisation.  How was he going to get caught and who was going to catch him? 

[Cambridgecutie]

Why would you suggest that Jones would have taken it?

Kill two birds with one stone.

[Zoso]

No it does not.  You are completely wrong and totally misunderstand the blood evidence.  When is it going to sink in the blood on the outside was completely different to the set of results created by the lab for the flake said to have been found inside?

EP released WHF from a soc back to Bamber late noon on 9th Aug.  He said he did not want to go back in at that stage so DS Jones met the Eatons and handed the keys over to AE and gave instructions about the newly fitted alarm. 

DS Jones had access to WHF and was in a position of being there alone.  The silencer had already become very topical hence Bamber was asked to complete a further statement about it on 8th Aug.

DS Jone inside WHF alone was able to recover the silencer contaminate it with small bloodstains, paint and hair and leave it for the relatives to find.  He didn't need SC's blood.  Small blood stains were incapable of being typed a fact he would have been well aware of.  He may well have pricked his own finger.

The really incriminating 'evidence' was not created until a month later when the lab produced a set of test results.

Bamber was 'asked' to make the second statement? That's not what the statement implies, it implies that Bamber initiated the second statement by the term "Further to the statement I made to the police dated 7th August 1985 I would like to clarify my movements and actions I made at my parents farm on the evening of 6th August 1985" - it doesn't state 'he had been asked' which it usually does.

[Zoso]

Kill two birds with one stone.

There is no evidence he took it at all and given that Bamber questioned it, he would hardly be likely to keep it. I'm pretty sure that Ann said she gave it to the accountant.

[ILB]

I don't understand how it could possibly go tits up as you put it?  It was in era pre DNA and digitalisation.  How was he going to get caught and who was going to catch him?

I'm more interested as to why you believe a police officer would put an innocent man in life when he was just a DS and had no particular motivation to see Jeremy Bamber jailed?

I have referenced police corruption myself in the 70s and 80s do you believe DS Jones was offered money?

[Zoso]

I'm more interested as to why you believe a police officer would put an innocent man in life when he was just a DS and had no particular motivation to see Jeremy Bamber jailed?

I have referenced police corruption myself in the 70s and 80s do you believe DS Jones was offered money?

Or why any of them would? I have asked this question time and again - there is no answer other than ....... 'something' might have happened at the cs that the police didn't want to get out'. No one knows what that 'something' was. Truth is, there is no reason. Yes, Stefan Kiszko was framed but in that case, they didn't have anyone else in the frame, whereas, you can't say that about the Bamber case. Also, to change from Sheila to Jeremy, EP came under a LOT of criticism and ridicule. It would have been easier for them to stay with Sheila.

[ILB]

Or why any of them would? I have asked this question time and again - there is no answer other than ....... 'something' might have happened at the cs that the police didn't want to get out'. No one knows what that 'something' was. Truth is, there is no reason. Yes, Stefan Kiszko was framed but in that case, they didn't have anyone else in the frame, whereas, you can't say that about the Bamber case. Also, to change from Sheila to Jeremy, EP came under a LOT of criticism and ridicule. It would have been easier for them to stay with Sheila.

Only way I can see DS Jones or any senior officer framing Jeremy is if they were tempted by monetary reward.

There's no incentive or appeal otherwise to do so.  And to do something of thus magnitude it would only be tempted by a large amount.

No copper is going to risk his job, pension, family over a hunch or personal belief. Unless someone put money in his pocket.