Silencer: If Sheila's blood was planted what about David & Pamela's blood group?

[Hardy Boy]

That is not what I said. 

Given Bamber was asked by EP to make a second statement about the rifle etc on 8th Aug it rather begs the question why AE's wit stat of 14th Aug makes no mention of a silencer in any context.  And it rather begs the question why the relatives did not make wit stats about the silencer until about a month after it was found.

He wasn't asked to make a Statement just about the rifle, he said he wanted to Clarify his movements and actions he made at his parents house.

[Hardy Boy]

I do not suppose you know where page 2 has gone?

No i don't know where it has gone.

[Bubo bubo]

No they were not told to take everything to Anne's house by B. Cock.  B. Cock was the accountant and was tasked with valuing the estate for probate.  He asked for all valuable eg cash, cheque books.  AE put away paintings and silver within WHF. 

Page 45:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.0.html

If the police/family put little relevance into the finding of the silencer why did AP phone EP about it on the morning of 8th Aug?

If the police/family put little relevance into the finding of the silencer why did EP ask JB to complete a further wit stat about it on 8th Aug?

Perhaps he was concerned that some of his shooting equipment had been taken by the police on the 7th.

[Cambridgecutie]

Perhaps he was concerned that some of his shooting equipment had been taken by the police on the 7th.

May I suggest you read the relevant documents.

[Cambridgecutie]

No i don't know where it has gone.

Is there a second page?  Matters not in the context of finding the silencer.  We know from COLP AE did not mention it in her wit stat of 14th Aug.

[Cambridgecutie]

He wasn't asked to make a Statement just about the rifle, he said he wanted to Clarify his movements and actions he made at his parents house.

This was all on the basis of AP's call to EP on the morning of 8th Aug eg Sheila's ability to operate the rifle etc. 

[Rob_]

I am very dubious about the state of the silencer when it was found by the relatives because:

- It was found on 10th Aug
- Afaik the only relative to make a wit stat in Aug was AE.  This was on 14th Aug and there is no mention of the silencer in any context.
- When the relatives did make stats in Sep these were contradictory with regard who saw what, when etc
- When the relatives testified at trial this again was contradictory
- When the relatives made stats for COLP these were again contradictory
- When DB has made contributions to the media over the years and discussed the silencer it was again contradictory
- Afaik none of the relatives refer to the grey hair
- DS Jones testimony contradicts the above

On the balance of probabilities I am more inclined to think DS Jones fabricated the silencer after he collected it from Oak Farm.

In DB's statement of the 12 Sept he says he saw blood and paint on the silencer when it was found at WHF?

Something as important as this cannot be forgotten but in other statements and at trail it was at Oak farm the blood and paint was first noticed?

The silencer was also sticky? would fingerprint testing have caused this?

[Hardy Boy]

This was all on the basis of AP's call to EP on the morning of 8th Aug eg Sheila's ability to operate the rifle etc.

Wonder why he wanted to Clarify HIS movements and HIS actions if he was just making a statement about Sheila's ability to operate a rifle on the basis of AP's call?

[Zoso]

That is not what I said. 

Given Bamber was asked by EP to make a second statement about the rifle etc on 8th Aug it rather begs the question why AE's wit stat of 14th Aug makes no mention of a silencer in any context.  And it rather begs the question why the relatives did not make wit stats about the silencer until about a month after it was found.

Again, you're saying he was 'asked' to make the statement, when he actually states that HE wanted to clarify things. He mentions both items in his statement, so this can't be just out of the blue! You can't just disregard what is said in the statements and make your own interpretations because they fit better with your own thoughts! David said that the items were mentioned on 7th and this is confirmed because Bamber mentions sights and silencer when he 'amends/clarifies' his statement the following day.

[Hardy Boy]

It was nothing to do with Basil Cock.  He was the accountant.  The relatives took all the firearms, ammunition, silencer and scope to Oak Farm.  This to my mind seems the sensible thing to have done.  It says a lot about EP that they left firearms in an unoccupied property.  Especially given the firearms were not in any sort of secure unit. 

In what context did DB lie on oath at court?

I don't know, would that be lying on oath when he said that Cock was there and he gave instructions to take everything to his sisters house, if you say Cock never gave these instructions?

[Hardy Boy]

There's no evidence JB wanted to make any further statements after his statement of 7th Aug. 

His statement made on 8th Aug in the evening was on the back of AP's call to Witham on morning of 8th Aug.

There is evidence, because he made such statement and put in it that HE would like  to Clarify his movements and actions.

[Bubo bubo]

May I suggest you read the relevant documents.

Such as? I seem to remember that his shooting materials were left at WHF because it was a condition of his licence. He also won a civil case against the Sunday Sport who claimed his rifle was on the premises. I seem to remember he said he always took the bolt home rendering it inoperable. It is clamed that he also had a SM and two magazines for bullets stored with Brno rifle.

[Bubo bubo]

Such as? I seem to remember that his shooting materials were left at WHF because it was a condition of his licence. He also won a civil case against the Sunday Sport who claimed his rifle was on the premises. I seem to remember he said he always took the bolt home rendering it inoperable. It is clamed that he also had a  and two magazines for his stored with Brno rifle.

Here are a couple of quotes from the late and much missed MT

The following information will lead to the quashing of convictions/release from custody of Jeremy Bamber - Essex police seized Anthony Pargeters silencer from the scene, on the first morning of the police investigation (7th August 1985). it was Seized by 'DS Jones after he returned to the farmhouse as a result of information received from Jeremy Bamber, regarding the fact that there existed 'A SILENCER'and a telescopic sight belonging to 'THE GUN' (as evidenced by the witness, 'Ann Eaton, who went to 9 Head Street at 9.10am that same morning, and overheard that discussion). Two hours later (11.10am) 'DS JONES' left 9 Head street, Goldhanger, and returned to the scene to look for and collect 'that silencer' and telescopic sight, belonging to 'THE GUN' used in the shootings.

A Uniformed PC who had been instructed to keep a log of anyone who arrived or left the farmhouse building after 10.00am, recorded in his handwritten (timed events) log, records for the fact that 'DS JONES' did return to the scene at that time..

Years later, as a result of the 'COLP' Enquiry into claims made by 'Jeremy BAMBER' that Essex police and his relatives had fabricated the 'SILENCER', blood, and paint/scratchmark  evidence, to get him convicted, 'DS Jones' was asked by COLP investigators, why he had returned to the scene at 11.10am, on that first morning of the police investigation, and 'DS Jones' claimed that he had no recollection of having done so.




THEY KEEP BLOCKING THIS INFORMATION FROM BEING POSTED...


Please Click on link (below), and type 'Open File', to view unfinished project

In Ann EATONS Witness Statement, she states the following:-

As a result of information received at about 9.10am on Wednesday 7th August 1985, I went to 9 Head Street, Goldhanger where I saw two plain clothes policemen and Jeremy Bamber discussing the deaths at white house farm and taking a statement regarding the same.

I cannot be precise of when it was said by the police or Jeremy but during the taking of the statement questions were raised about the Silencer and telescopic sites of the gun. Jeremy made replies to the effect that the Silencer and telescopic sights had to be removed from the gun before it could be stored in one of the cupboards.

'Ann EATON, knew about the existence of 'THE SILENCER' belonging to the gun she thought had been used in the shootings on the morning of 7th August 1985


'DS Jones' knew about the existence of 'THE SILENCER' belonging to the gun he thought had been used in the shootings on the morning of 7th August 1985

'DC Clark' knew about the existence of 'THE SILENCER' belonging to the gun he thought had been used in the shootings on the morning of 7th August 1985

Eaton, Jones, and Clark knew about 'A silencer' to a gun, by 9.10am, on the morning of 7th August 1985, because Jeremy himself told them about 'it'...

By 11.10am, that very same morning (7th August 1985) 'DS Jones, left Jeremy's cottage at 9 Head Street, Goldhanger, and went back to the scene to collect 'THE SILENCER' (which subsequently became exhibit 'SBJ/1' and telescopic sight) that Jeremy had told them about. But he seized 'Anthony Pargeters' silencer, in error. This came about, because Police at the scene 'soon after point of entry' seized 'Anthony Pargeters' .22 bolt action (Brno model), as well as the .22 semi-automatic 'Anshuzt' rifle, and 'DS Jones' seized 'Anthony Pargerters' silencer which was recovered from the downstairs toilet/bathroom. One of the four 'exhibits' that 'DS Jones' took from whf that morning (in addition to the silencer ('SBJ/1'), was a photograph that 'DS Jones' had taken of the downstairs toilet/bathroom, where 'Anthony Pargeter' always kept his collection of guns, including his .22 (brno) bolt action rifle, accessories, and ammunitions.

'Jeremy Bamber' knew about the existence of the 'THE SILENCER' (which would later on become exhibit 'DB/1'), to his own families .22 semi-automatic 'Anshuzt' rifle before the tragedy, and also afterwards. He never spoke to 'DS Jones', or 'DC Clark' about the silencer belonging to 'Anthony Pargeters' . 22 rifle. 'Ann Eaton' does not mention anything about the existence of a second silencer when she was listening to the conversation between 'Jones', 'Clark' and 'Jeremy' at 'Jeremy's cottage on that first morning. Hence, why 'DS Jones'  upon finding 'Anthony Pargeters' silencer (the original exhibit, 'SBJ/1' - 'Lab item number 22), in the downstairs toilet/bathroom on his return to the scene (7th August 1985), no further enquiries were made with regards to which silencer belonged to which gun, because as far as 'DS Jones was concerned he was only aware of the existence of one silencer ('SBJ/1' - Lab item number 22) after speaking with Jeremy in the presence of 'DC Clark, and in the hearshot of 'Ann Eaton'..

That 'mistake/error' only came to light after the seizure of 'THE SILENCER'- (Lab item number 23') belonging to the Bamber family owned .22 semi-automatic rifle, found by David Boutflour, in the gun cupboard at the scene (on 10th August 1985), was the self-same gun cupboard where the .22 semi-automatic rifle, telescopic sight and ammunitions were normally kept. It now seems almost certain, and without doubt, that at some point between 'David Boutflour, finding 'THE SILENCER ('DB/1' - Lab item number 23) which belonged to the .22 semi-automatic 'Anshuzt rifle, on 10th August 1985, and the 12th August 1985, when 'Robert Woodwis Boutflour went along to Witham police station, and informed 'PS Miller' that his son ('David Boutflour') had found 'a silencer' (Lab item number 23) at the scene a couple of days beforehand. Hence, why 'DS Jones, attends the 'Ann/Peter Eaton' residence later that 12th August 1985, evening and collects 'THE SILENCER ('DB/1') belonging to the Bamber family rifle. It becomes clear that by that stage, Essex police were in possession of two different lookalike parker hale silencers, ('SBJ/1' and 'DB/1'), one belonging to the Pargeter gun, and the other one belonging to the Bamber gun...

[Zoso]

There's no evidence JB wanted to make any further statements after his statement of 7th Aug. 

His statement made on 8th Aug in the evening was on the back of AP's call to Witham on morning of 8th Aug.

Well, there is because his he states that HE wanted to clarify his movements etc. on 7th. Your comment about AP above being the case, why did Jones and Jones visit Bamber on 9th to ask about the silencer/sights?

[snow66!]

Well, there is because his he states that HE wanted to clarify his movements etc. on 7th. Your comment about AP above being the case, why did Jones and Jones visit Bamber on 9th to ask about the silencer/sights?

Taff visited because AP told him that the silencer and sights were fitted the week before the murders Zoso!
Taff asked Bamber who removed them!