Author Topic: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel  (Read 33792 times)

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Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #90 on: May 17, 2025, 09:28:PM »
    Nobody is rattled by you, Steve. In fact it is fairly clear that you spend most of your time on here rattled by someone or other. Other members can recognise that neither myself nor ngb are in need of "assistance" when debating someone as ill informed as you. You on the other hand... Other posters have often commented positively on my posts but I don't recall similar reactions to your "contributions". I would venture that most posters/readers recognise your limited knowledge on the subjects that you imagine that you are in a "debate" about. You are getting schooled, not debating, but are too ideologically blinded to be objective.
Can we get back to politics now rather than personalities? How on earth are you going to rebuild trust between Israelis and Palestinians, given the October 7 attacks?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2025, 05:38:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #91 on: May 21, 2025, 07:00:AM »
Looks like the UK and others are getting fed up with Israel?

UK steps up action against Israel over Gaza offensive….. David Lammy called the military escalation in Gaza "morally unjustifiable"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4kkl555w8o




Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #92 on: May 21, 2025, 05:37:PM »
Looks like the UK and others are getting fed up with Israel?

UK steps up action against Israel over Gaza offensive….. David Lammy called the military escalation in Gaza "morally unjustifiable"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4kkl555w8o
Well, Lammy looks like he's getting enough food.

From Melanie:

   


 



 
 





 

Israeli midwives mourn Tzeela Gez, murdered on her way to give birth to her fourth child
Sir Keir Starmer has finally found some admirers. Britain’s Labour prime minister is plumbing record depths of unpopularity. With every move, he is helping ensure that his party will be wiped out at the next general election. Not to worry! Hamas loves him.

Yes, the Islamist terrorist organisation that’s sworn to destroy the west after it’s exterminated Israel and murdered all the Jews is utterly thrilled by the UK, Britain and Canada over their condemnation of Israel’s war of defence against Hamas’s attempt to wipe out the Jewish state.

In a statement, these three moral bankrupts have demanded that Israel immediately halt its military action in Gaza and allow in more aid than it is currently doing, having partially lifted the siege it imposed after the last ceasefire ended in April.

The statement said Israel’s failure to assist the Gazan civilian population “is unacceptable and risks breaching international humanitarian law.”

This is a double lie. Israel has not failed to assist Gaza’s civilians.

As Honest Reporting points out, the World Food Programme says 94,000 tons of food can feed one million people for four months. During the January-March ceasefire, some 380,000 tons of food aid entered Gaza — enough to feed its 2.1 million people for eight months.

Yet the media misreports this this by citing the UN, which counts only its own aid trucks and ignores the aid supplies provided by private donations, individual countries and international organisations. Ah yes — the UN whose Emergency Coordinator Tom Fletcher told the BBC two days ago that “14,000 babies will die in 48 hours” from malnutrition.

This wild and ludicrous lie went round the world even though, as the BBC later clarified, it had misrepresented a claim on May 12 by the UN’s IPC food classification system — a claim that was itself highly dubious — that an estimated 14,100 severe cases of acute malnutrition were expected to occur among children aged six to 59 months between April 2025 and March 2026.

The Starmer Macron Carney statement also ignored the fact that the problem was never inadequate supplies of food into Gaza but that these were systematically hijacked by Hamas. They used the aid for themselves, or to sell it on the black market at vastly inflated prices to finance the weapons that they used to continue the war of extermination they had started on October 7 2023.

The claim by Starmer, Macron and Carney that Israel risks breaching international humanitarian law is another lie. The obligation under the 4th Geneva Convention to allow aid to an enemy civilian population is explicitly exempted if there is a risk that the aid will be diverted to enemy fighting forces — exactly as Hamas has been doing since the war began.

Hamas, which has committed thousands of war crimes, gloated over this statement, saying it “considers this stance an important step in the right direction toward restoring the principles of international law, which the government of the terrorist Netanyahu has sought to undermine and overturn”.

Doubtless Starmer, the human rights lawyer, will be gratified that the war criminals of Hamas share his own interpretation of international law.

“The level of human suffering in Gaza is intolerable” says the statement by Starmer and co. The Gazans agree; but they aren’t blaming Israel. In the past few days, thousands of them have taken to the streets demanding that Hamas surrender. If that were to happen, the war would immediately end. So why don’t Starmer and co demand that Hamas surrender, as the people of Gaza are saying, but are demanding instead that Israel surrender, which would enable Hamas to survive?

Israel is stepping up the war in order to force Hamas finally to release the remaining hostages. Starmer, Macron and Carney complain this is “disproportionate”. What’s disproportionate about this when Hamas is refusing to release the hostages unless Israel totally capitulates? What’s disproportionate about continuously moving the Gazan civilians to relative safety — and food aid — in order to trap and target the remaining Hamas battalions? What’s disproportionate about controlling territory to prevent any more thousands of rockets and depraved attacks against Israeli civilians? What’s disproportionate about an overwhelmingly just war against genocide?

The statement threatens “further concrete actions in response” if Israel doesn’t halt “settlements which are illegal and undermine the viability of a Palestinian state”. The much-repeated claim of illegality is a lie. The Jews alone are legally entitled to live in the disputed “West Bank” territories of Judea and Samaria. And why are these residents said to undermine the “viability of a Palestinian state”? Israel’s population is 20 per cent Arab. Yet Britain France and Canada are in effect demanding the ethnic cleansing of Jews from a future state of Palestine.

And since the vast majority of Arabs living within Gaza and these disputed territories say repeatedly they support the October 7 attacks and want to destroy Israel and murder Jews; and since the Palestinian Authority declares its intention to wipe out Israel, pays terrorists and their families for the murder of Israelis and teaches the children in its schools to murder Jews and steal their land, the insistence by Britain, France and Canada on a Palestinian state means they have become the allies of genocidal fanatics against innocent victims. That’s quite an achievement.

The statement threatens to suspend trade negotiations with Israel. Really? Britain depends upon Israeli intelligence and its military know-how to fight its own battles against the same kind of fanatics that Israel is fighting. Is the Starmer government’s hatred of Israel so unhinged that it’s really intending to damage Britain by denying a trade deal — which Israel says wasn’t even on the agenda anyway?

At the same time as it issued this statement, Britain imposed sanctions on two illegal Israeli settlement outposts and three Israeli “settlers”. The UK Foreign Office accused the three of being involved in “threatening and perpetuating acts of aggression and violence against Palestinian individuals.” Where’s the evidence of unprovoked attacks? Why is Britain arrogantly interfering in the internal affairs of another sovereign country?

Britain has sanctioned no Palestinian Arabs for the murderous daily attacks against Jewish residents of these areas. A few days ago one such resident, Tzeela Gez, was murdered as she was being driven to hospital for the birth of her fourth child.

The Starmer government ignored this latest atrocity against one of the “settlers” it has thus dehumanised and singled out for vilification. Instead it condemns the Israelis for trying to end such slaughter. “History will judge them,” said the Foreign Secretary David Lammy in a sickening Commons debate yesterday. “Blocking aid, expanding the war and dismissing the concerns of their friends and partners is indefensible and it must stop.”

Who on earth does he think he is? How dare he say Israel must stop defending its people. And this from a country that has so much Jewish blood on its own hands, going back to when British officials were the land’s colonial overlords — whose imperial disdain can be so clearly heard in Lammy’s tone — and who created the whole Middle East mess in the 1930s, when they tore up the UK’s treaty obligation to settle the Jews throughout what is now Israel, the “West Bank” and Gaza and offered instead to reward genocidal aggression by giving away part of the Jews’ entitlement to their aggressors, a murderous betrayal that Britain attempts to repeat to this very day.

As Richard Kemp has written:

The statement concludes with the dark threat of recognising a Palestinian state. As Prime Minister Netanyahu pointed out in his response, the leaders in London, Ottawa and Paris are offering a huge prize for the genocidal attack on Israel on October 7th while inviting more such atrocities.

If Starmer, Macron and Carney actually wanted to make a real contribution to peace in the region they would have told Hamas to release the hostages and lay down their arms. That above all is needed to save lives in Gaza and begin the process of rebuilding a decent life for the civilian population. But that would be too much to expect from bewildered leaders who cannot even defend their own borders or protect their own population from ever-increasing threats against them.

In the Commons, Starmer said Britain “cannot allow the people of Gaza to starve” and that levels of suffering in the strip were “utterly intolerable”. There is no starvation in Gaza and never has been. The level of suffering in Israel, where trauma and grief are off the scale, is utterly intolerable. But of that Starmer makes no mention.

History will judge Starmer and Lammy for perpetrating wicked falsehoods that have demonised and delegitimised Israel, dehumanised its victimised inhabitants and helped incite murderous hysteria against Jewish people in Britain.

Britain is taking the side of depravity against civilisation. It is evil, and it is deranged


« Last Edit: May 21, 2025, 06:03:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #93 on: May 21, 2025, 09:50:PM »
Well, Lammy looks like he's getting enough food.

From Melanie:

Israeli midwives mourn Tzeela Gez, murdered on her way to give birth to her fourth child
Sir Keir Starmer has finally found some admirers. Britain’s Labour prime minister is plumbing record depths of unpopularity. With every move, he is helping ensure that his party will be wiped out at the next general election. Not to worry! Hamas loves him.

Yes, the Islamist terrorist organisation that’s sworn to destroy the west after it’s exterminated Israel and murdered all the Jews is utterly thrilled by the UK, Britain and Canada over their condemnation of Israel’s war of defence against Hamas’s attempt to wipe out the Jewish state.

In a statement, these three moral bankrupts have demanded that Israel immediately halt its military action in Gaza and allow in more aid than it is currently doing, having partially lifted the siege it imposed after the last ceasefire ended in April.

The statement said Israel’s failure to assist the Gazan civilian population “is unacceptable and risks breaching international humanitarian law.”

This is a double lie. Israel has not failed to assist Gaza’s civilians.

As Honest Reporting points out, the World Food Programme says 94,000 tons of food can feed one million people for four months. During the January-March ceasefire, some 380,000 tons of food aid entered Gaza — enough to feed its 2.1 million people for eight months.

Yet the media misreports this this by citing the UN, which counts only its own aid trucks and ignores the aid supplies provided by private donations, individual countries and international organisations. Ah yes — the UN whose Emergency Coordinator Tom Fletcher told the BBC two days ago that “14,000 babies will die in 48 hours” from malnutrition.

This wild and ludicrous lie went round the world even though, as the BBC later clarified, it had misrepresented a claim on May 12 by the UN’s IPC food classification system — a claim that was itself highly dubious — that an estimated 14,100 severe cases of acute malnutrition were expected to occur among children aged six to 59 months between April 2025 and March 2026.

The Starmer Macron Carney statement also ignored the fact that the problem was never inadequate supplies of food into Gaza but that these were systematically hijacked by Hamas. They used the aid for themselves, or to sell it on the black market at vastly inflated prices to finance the weapons that they used to continue the war of extermination they had started on October 7 2023.

The claim by Starmer, Macron and Carney that Israel risks breaching international humanitarian law is another lie. The obligation under the 4th Geneva Convention to allow aid to an enemy civilian population is explicitly exempted if there is a risk that the aid will be diverted to enemy fighting forces — exactly as Hamas has been doing since the war began.

Hamas, which has committed thousands of war crimes, gloated over this statement, saying it “considers this stance an important step in the right direction toward restoring the principles of international law, which the government of the terrorist Netanyahu has sought to undermine and overturn”.

Doubtless Starmer, the human rights lawyer, will be gratified that the war criminals of Hamas share his own interpretation of international law.

“The level of human suffering in Gaza is intolerable” says the statement by Starmer and co. The Gazans agree; but they aren’t blaming Israel. In the past few days, thousands of them have taken to the streets demanding that Hamas surrender. If that were to happen, the war would immediately end. So why don’t Starmer and co demand that Hamas surrender, as the people of Gaza are saying, but are demanding instead that Israel surrender, which would enable Hamas to survive?

Israel is stepping up the war in order to force Hamas finally to release the remaining hostages. Starmer, Macron and Carney complain this is “disproportionate”. What’s disproportionate about this when Hamas is refusing to release the hostages unless Israel totally capitulates? What’s disproportionate about continuously moving the Gazan civilians to relative safety — and food aid — in order to trap and target the remaining Hamas battalions? What’s disproportionate about controlling territory to prevent any more thousands of rockets and depraved attacks against Israeli civilians? What’s disproportionate about an overwhelmingly just war against genocide?

The statement threatens “further concrete actions in response” if Israel doesn’t halt “settlements which are illegal and undermine the viability of a Palestinian state”. The much-repeated claim of illegality is a lie. The Jews alone are legally entitled to live in the disputed “West Bank” territories of Judea and Samaria. And why are these residents said to undermine the “viability of a Palestinian state”? Israel’s population is 20 per cent Arab. Yet Britain France and Canada are in effect demanding the ethnic cleansing of Jews from a future state of Palestine.

And since the vast majority of Arabs living within Gaza and these disputed territories say repeatedly they support the October 7 attacks and want to destroy Israel and murder Jews; and since the Palestinian Authority declares its intention to wipe out Israel, pays terrorists and their families for the murder of Israelis and teaches the children in its schools to murder Jews and steal their land, the insistence by Britain, France and Canada on a Palestinian state means they have become the allies of genocidal fanatics against innocent victims. That’s quite an achievement.

The statement threatens to suspend trade negotiations with Israel. Really? Britain depends upon Israeli intelligence and its military know-how to fight its own battles against the same kind of fanatics that Israel is fighting. Is the Starmer government’s hatred of Israel so unhinged that it’s really intending to damage Britain by denying a trade deal — which Israel says wasn’t even on the agenda anyway?

At the same time as it issued this statement, Britain imposed sanctions on two illegal Israeli settlement outposts and three Israeli “settlers”. The UK Foreign Office accused the three of being involved in “threatening and perpetuating acts of aggression and violence against Palestinian individuals.” Where’s the evidence of unprovoked attacks? Why is Britain arrogantly interfering in the internal affairs of another sovereign country?

Britain has sanctioned no Palestinian Arabs for the murderous daily attacks against Jewish residents of these areas. A few days ago one such resident, Tzeela Gez, was murdered as she was being driven to hospital for the birth of her fourth child.

The Starmer government ignored this latest atrocity against one of the “settlers” it has thus dehumanised and singled out for vilification. Instead it condemns the Israelis for trying to end such slaughter. “History will judge them,” said the Foreign Secretary David Lammy in a sickening Commons debate yesterday. “Blocking aid, expanding the war and dismissing the concerns of their friends and partners is indefensible and it must stop.”

Who on earth does he think he is? How dare he say Israel must stop defending its people. And this from a country that has so much Jewish blood on its own hands, going back to when British officials were the land’s colonial overlords — whose imperial disdain can be so clearly heard in Lammy’s tone — and who created the whole Middle East mess in the 1930s, when they tore up the UK’s treaty obligation to settle the Jews throughout what is now Israel, the “West Bank” and Gaza and offered instead to reward genocidal aggression by giving away part of the Jews’ entitlement to their aggressors, a murderous betrayal that Britain attempts to repeat to this very day.

As Richard Kemp has written:

The statement concludes with the dark threat of recognising a Palestinian state. As Prime Minister Netanyahu pointed out in his response, the leaders in London, Ottawa and Paris are offering a huge prize for the genocidal attack on Israel on October 7th while inviting more such atrocities.

If Starmer, Macron and Carney actually wanted to make a real contribution to peace in the region they would have told Hamas to release the hostages and lay down their arms. That above all is needed to save lives in Gaza and begin the process of rebuilding a decent life for the civilian population. But that would be too much to expect from bewildered leaders who cannot even defend their own borders or protect their own population from ever-increasing threats against them.

In the Commons, Starmer said Britain “cannot allow the people of Gaza to starve” and that levels of suffering in the strip were “utterly intolerable”. There is no starvation in Gaza and never has been. The level of suffering in Israel, where trauma and grief are off the scale, is utterly intolerable. But of that Starmer makes no mention.

History will judge Starmer and Lammy for perpetrating wicked falsehoods that have demonised and delegitimised Israel, dehumanised its victimised inhabitants and helped incite murderous hysteria against Jewish people in Britain.

Britain is taking the side of depravity against civilisation. It is evil, and it is deranged



More deranged drivel from vile Melanie Phillips.

I am no fan of Lammy but but at least he is finally bowing to the tsunami of evidence and making a very limited statement.  Our government's complicity in this is dreadful, and the limited and very late criticism is welcome but woefully inadequate without much stronger action.  You on the other hand remain a shameless apologist for these Zionist monsters.  The fact that you are a sanctimonious self professed Christian makes it worse.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2025, 09:42:AM by ngb1066 »

Offline gringo

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #94 on: May 22, 2025, 03:50:AM »
    It is unfortunate that those who the words are aimed at are the least likely to hear them, Roch. It "could have been made specifically for Steve", as ngb observes. I get the impression that Steve will be with the genocidaires to the end. When everyone else has abandoned the genocide bus and it is just Mad Mel Phillips now driving the bus over the cliff edge, Steve will be next to her, both ranting into the void. David will be sat at the back calling the disembarking passengers tankies and conspiritards
     https://x.com/MirMAKOfficial/status/1925377327384457366

  They are all jumping off the bus now, Steve. Attempting to distance themselves while they think they still can. It is a genocide, Steve. An openly admitted, live streamed genocide and it is impossible to credibly deny.

https://x.com/ShihabudeenMb/status/1925332483425407012

    "Far-right Israeli politician Moshe Feiglin said, "Every child in Gaza is the enemy. We need to occupy Gaza and settle it, and not a single Gazan child will be left there. There is no other victory” during an interview on Israeli TV Channel 14."

      Your continued support discredits and shames you.
     

Offline Roch

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #95 on: May 22, 2025, 09:19:AM »
Why are people so late in trying to jump ship? It was clear in October 2023 what was happening. Clear a year ago and six months ago etc. It's always been clear what was happening. Why has it taken them so long?

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #96 on: May 22, 2025, 09:42:AM »
Why are people so late in trying to jump ship? It was clear in October 2023 what was happening. Clear a year ago and six months ago etc. It's always been clear what was happening. Why has it taken them so long?

I agree, it is shameful.


Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #97 on: May 22, 2025, 10:31:AM »
Why are people so late in trying to jump ship? It was clear in October 2023 what was happening. Clear a year ago and six months ago etc. It's always been clear what was happening. Why has it taken them so long?
To be honest Roch, I never in a million years expected them to go this far, it’s disgusting and barbaric and they’ve lost all respect, Shame on them.

Offline gringo

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #98 on: May 22, 2025, 02:30:PM »
Why are people so late in trying to jump ship? It was clear in October 2023 what was happening. Clear a year ago and six months ago etc. It's always been clear what was happening. Why has it taken them so long?
   Because they hold whatever opinion they are paid or blackmailed to hold would seem the obvious conclusion, Roch. The blood-lust of the Zionists has become too barbaric to whitewash any longer. The paymasters are getting nervous and have changed tack. It appears that Netanyahu will be thrown under the bus in their desperate attempt to save their colony but it is desperation moves now. Netanyahu is the ideal public face of Israel and the Zionist ideology in that he mirrors mainstream Israeli opinion perfectly. Zionism is a uniquely barbaric, supremacist cult used by Western Imperialists whose mask is ripped off completely now. There are no "reasonable" replacements available within Israeli society to replace Netanyahu. I fear this ends messily.

Offline David1819

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #99 on: May 22, 2025, 03:04:PM »
Meanwhile Trump confronts the SA president on a genocide elsewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/live/Krfaj4IRUXc?feature=shared&t=930


Offline gringo

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #100 on: May 22, 2025, 03:28:PM »
Meanwhile Trump confronts the SA president on a genocide elsewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/live/Krfaj4IRUXc?feature=shared&t=930
   Utterly shameful and obviously manufactured, all because South Africa are the nation that stood up at the start and took the case to the ICJ. Everyone can see through this shameful charade. You demean yourself by claiming genocide in South Africa whilst turning a blind eye to the daily live streamed atrocities committed by the Israelis.

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #101 on: May 22, 2025, 05:31:PM »

More deranged drivel from vile Melanie Phillips.

I am no fan of Lammy but but at least he is finally bowing to the tsunami of evidence and making a very limited statement.  Our government's complicity in this is dreadful, and the limited and very late criticism is welcome but woefully inadequate without much stronger action.  You on the other hand remain a shameless apologist for these Zionist monsters.  The fact that you are a sanctimonious self professed Christian makes it worse.
A nation of seven million has had 1200 of its citizens randomly slaughtered, but you don't wish to delve too deeply into that because it doesn't suit your agenda. Gaza could have been a modern, prototype Islamist state. Instead it was hijacked by Hamas, which built tunnels solely for the purpose of armed retribution against the Jewish state, along with firing thousands of rockets from border areas into Israeli territory.

Zionists? The Jews have lived in the Holy Land for 3500 years. Christian pilgrims have been visiting holy sites for 1600 years. Holy sites to Jews are: the Western Wall (Kotel), Temple Mount, the Mount of Olives,  Cave of the Patriarchs, Rachels' Tomb, Tiberius, Jericho.

As for my morality, I've done volunteer work for many years, though not so much now I'm (undoubtedly) getting older. Yes, I have a moral code, which tallies with the Judeo-Christian tradition far more than the despotic Islamist one.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2025, 09:14:PM by Steve_uk »

Online Steve_uk

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #102 on: May 22, 2025, 08:40:PM »
   Utterly shameful and obviously manufactured, all because South Africa are the nation that stood up at the start and took the case to the ICJ. Everyone can see through this shameful charade. You demean yourself by claiming genocide in South Africa whilst turning a blind eye to the daily live streamed atrocities committed by the Israelis.
There is a case to answer, whether you like it or not: https://youtu.be/FrA9S8RFC20

Offline gringo

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #103 on: May 22, 2025, 10:50:PM »
There is a case to answer, whether you like it or not: https://youtu.be/FrA9S8RFC20
    Well if there is a case to answer then Trump and the US should gather the evidence and take it to the ICJ. The shameful show that they put on to an invited President shows the pathetic episode for what it was. If Trump genuinely believed there was a genocide, it wouldn’t be dealt with by nonsense such as that “show for the cameras” An obvious attempt to distract from the very real genocide in Palestine.

Offline David1819

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Re: Melanie Phillips: The case for Israel
« Reply #104 on: May 23, 2025, 01:54:AM »
The population statistics for South Africa speak for themselves.

1996: ~31.1 million black people (76.7%)
2011: ~41.0 million black people (79.2%)
2024: ~51.5 million black people (81.7%)

1995: ~5.24 million white people (peak)
1996: ~4.4 million white people (10.9%)
2024: 4.5 million white people (7.2%)


While Gaza's population has grown dramatically over the past 30 years, from around 1 million or less in the mid-1990s to over 2.2 million today.