Author Topic: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination  (Read 3118 times)

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Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #450 on: January 16, 2024, 07:19:AM »
IMO  In the real second statement she probably mentions JB's comment/Joke when she questioned him about the killings and he said words to the affect, 'Of course not I hired a hitman'
Your Probably spot on with this Bubo,  it's the sort of Joke you would expect from someone without any Empathy for others and Lack of remorse after hurting others and rationalizing having done so.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #451 on: January 16, 2024, 10:56:AM »
That's some concocted excuse.
Not as concocted as it may seem. In the initial phase of the investigations it is well known that the family were unhappy with Taff's decision of four murders and a suicide. It is also a matter of record that the family pestered him time and time again. They were all over the details and again this is an accepted fact especially where RB was concerned who even used a friends son to undertake fact finding missions. (PC Carr).
Eventually Taff gave the family his reasoning and we know that for most this was satisfactory. I surmise that it was the fact that they had two calls in close proximity that meant JB was in the clear. However this did not satisfy RB who we know came up with the idea of an accomplice.

When JM came forward it would have been incumbent on the police to check out what was a very possible line of enquiry which had to be investigated.

Thus if JB had made a remark in extremely bad taste that he had hired a hitman and when JM was questioned under caution as to whether he had mentioned a hitman this line of enquiry was taken up. However JM was probably asked who was the hitman and had JB given a name. She had to think of someone and chose MM

This is a passage from a larger post.

I believe he created a persona for himself and that his relationship with Julie was unhealthy, some might call it mental cruelty or abuse by controlling behaviour. Because she was so besotted with him he could live a game with her for his own enjoyment, stringing her along with all kinds of tales about why and how he had done it, teasing her knowing it was lies and that she would not leave him and that because it was all fantasy he would never be charged. That is why her statements have a ‘ring of truth’ and why he has never seriously challenged them. Which of course he cannot it’s just his word against hers. How wrong he was. It is possible that if she asked him ‘did you do it’ he said ‘of course not I hired a hit man’. This may be just a seriously damaging statement said in jest but given what may actually have occurred a truly disastrous comment because of pure coincidence.


Offline Zoso

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #452 on: January 16, 2024, 11:50:AM »
Not as concocted as it may seem. In the initial phase of the investigations it is well known that the family were unhappy with Taff's decision of four murders and a suicide. It is also a matter of record that the family pestered him time and time again. They were all over the details and again this is an accepted fact especially where RB was concerned who even used a friends son to undertake fact finding missions. (PC Carr).
Eventually Taff gave the family his reasoning and we know that for most this was satisfactory. I surmise that it was the fact that they had two calls in close proximity that meant JB was in the clear. However this did not satisfy RB who we know came up with the idea of an accomplice.

When JM came forward it would have been incumbent on the police to check out what was a very possible line of enquiry which had to be investigated.

Thus if JB had made a remark in extremely bad taste that he had hired a hitman and when JM was questioned under caution as to whether he had mentioned a hitman this line of enquiry was taken up. However JM was probably asked who was the hitman and had JB given a name. She had to think of someone and chose MM

This is a passage from a larger post.

I believe he created a persona for himself and that his relationship with Julie was unhealthy, some might call it mental cruelty or abuse by controlling behaviour. Because she was so besotted with him he could live a game with her for his own enjoyment, stringing her along with all kinds of tales about why and how he had done it, teasing her knowing it was lies and that she would not leave him and that because it was all fantasy he would never be charged. That is why her statements have a ‘ring of truth’ and why he has never seriously challenged them. Which of course he cannot it’s just his word against hers. How wrong he was. It is possible that if she asked him ‘did you do it’ he said ‘of course not I hired a hit man’. This may be just a seriously damaging statement said in jest but given what may actually have occurred a truly disastrous comment because of pure coincidence.

He and their relationship were all of this things. Think about the kind of person who would act that way. Callous beyond compare, the kind of person that could plot and execute the murder of his adoptive family.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #453 on: January 16, 2024, 12:53:PM »
He and their relationship were all of this things. Think about the kind of person who would act that way. Callous beyond compare, the kind of person that could plot and execute the murder of his adoptive family.

That is a bit of a stretch. Because he is self obsessed and behaved in a cavalier fashion it does not mean he did it. Many people have warped personalities and if that was the case there would be a lot more murders. Having a callous personality does not mean he did murder his family it just makes him a not very nice person.

Perhaps you would be good enough to read this rather lengthy analysis.

10/01/20
Who is Jeremy Bamber?
Background
He’s a psychopath. He is suffering from an extreme form of narcissism which enables him to blot out what he did to the extent that he believes he did not do it. Need I go on listing descriptions of his mental state? These are just two of many hundreds of descriptions of Jeremy Bamber by individuals who are not trained Clinical Psychologists and have never even met him. Even when he passes a polygraph test he is denounced. It is claimed it only measures stress and because of his ‘Hannibal Lector’ personality he can condition himself in order to pass. All of this flies in the face of information that is in the public domain that he has been examined, assessed and interviewed by many professionals and pronounced normal. I assume this information is true.

They fail to appreciate that a lack of empathy is not confined to narcissism or psychopathy but is also shared with other conditions like Asperger’s syndrome and Social Maladjustment. Further most if not all conditions are sub divided into mild moderate and severe categories. A person may display a collection of traits but using just a few and then associating them to a diagnosis is wrong. Ask a Clinical Psychologist.
Why is he subjected to such extreme vitriol and hatred? Given the venom they dispense one might question aspects of their mental states.

I believe there are a number of reasons apart from their own possible warped mentality and dare I say it, plain ignorance. Sometimes people’s persecution of others which manifests itself in issues such as racism has its roots in self-loathing which is turned against others. They have a poor self-concept. As Maslow might say they are not self-actualised.

There are however some more practical explanations.

If you do not attribute this vicious and frenzied set of murders to Sheila it is perhaps logical to think that the perpetrator must have a mental disorder to enable them to carry out the act, (irrespective of any means, motive or opportunity), whilst at the same time this individual was maintaining that a person, who had a proven and diagnosed mental condition, was the real culprit
Since it is generally accepted that no third party was involved and with only circumstantial evidence available it becomes more important to examine Jeremy’s personality as a means of judging in one’s own mind his guilt or innocence.

The use of internet discussion forums and the tabloid press’s penchant for reheating old crimes together with TV documentaries also tend to focus attention on the persona of the convicted. This is more likely where there are issues of doubt about the conviction and the central character is maintaining innocence. Although other cases can be portrayed and discussed even when there is no doubt, such crimes are revisited only to satiate people’s fascination with the Macabre and ghoulish aspects of the particular case. The WHF murders have both these aspects.

To be a little fairer to the media some of this is caused by Jeremy himself as he tries to win his freedom. Unfortunately whilst these episodes help to keep his case in the ‘public eye’, they inevitably lead to more negative impressions since the media in most cases do not ask why he is behaving in this way but report in a negative way, upholding the status quo. They do not ask themselves ‘Why if these attempts to raise his profile as a MOJ provoke more negative rather than positive outcomes and sentiments does he continue to try to raise awareness in this way?’ Just look at the storm created by ‘The graveyard vlog’. I believe he has little choice.

Internet forums are ok but they can give way to bullying, trolling and a battle of egos as participants vie to be the top expert, the most knowledgeable when it comes to the purported facts and also the coveted title of the most vitriolic. Participants try to carve out a niche. The voice of reason, the fence sitter, the most patronising, the most sanctimonious, the most compassionate, the Joker, the wind up merchant, the wittiest, etc. are all roles that people play. Often the search for the real truth is submerged in a torrent of tit for tat arguments on the most mundane aspects of a case such as what the guilty party had for breakfast, as if some meaningful insight can be derived from such facts.

There are very rarely attempts to pursue lines of enquiry which are developed from things like brainstorming or lateral thinking and when they are they are usually buried in a fusillade of attacks on the poster. True attempts to get at the truth are quickly euthanised.

There is also a question of media manipulation which needs to be examined. Given the nature of the WHF case there are many vested interests in maintaining the verdict amongst a host of actors. There is no need for me to name them I am sure we all know who they are.

Given the notoriety of the case blackening Jeremy’s name and questioning his sanity given all the circumstances is a powerful way to keep him imprisoned. I have no doubt that there have been some form of ‘Black Ops’ programmes in play by some groups over various media channels and the prime weapon has been his personality. To all of this are the numerous books that have been written. My views on these are that it is wrong to trade in other people’s misery and pain for monetary gain. Purely academically researched tomes for study purposes are ok. I believe Colin should use his Royalties to fund work at GOSH in their name.

Given the amount of time that some people invest in the case particularly on forums, (or writing cranky notes to others), one must question their motives. Why do ‘Guilters’ do this, surely the man they believe to be guilty is behind bars why continue? I believe even some of them have doubts but use the personality issue to convince themselves they have come to the correct decision and seek justification by attacking the man they think he is. So who is he?
I will start by saying that in having no qualifications in Clinical Psychology, I am as bad as those I have denounced but I do have some thoughts and opinions.

Jeremy the early years

Jeremy was schooled at a private school in Maldon. It is likely that his friends came from a wide catchment area as it unlikely that the school could survive based on the small market town that it then was. There were not enough kids. Many were probably from similar backgrounds or the professional classes. Many of the inhabitants in this whole area were poor working class, farm workers and labourers. Neville did not want him to mix with kids who he might employ in later years.

WHF is isolated from Tolleshunt D’Arcy a place where when I knew it in the late 70’s early 80’s was mainly older people, very small (100 tops) and with few children and families. Tollesbury where I used to visit though larger with a greater demographic mix was also quite small but was linked to D’Arcy by two country lanes which had no pavement access and were dangerous to walk with heavy farm vehicles lorries and many cars. Goldhanger, Maldon, Witham and other local villages like Tiptree posed similar problems Public transport was only by the local private company Osborne’s. I believe he had little opportunity to mix and socialise with his peers. He never writes about his mates, playing sports such as football with others. I guess his main contacts were his sister and cousins but how frequently? Unless his parents ferried him to activities like cubs, scouts, etc. or made a conscious effort for him to play with friends on a regular basis he would spend much of his time marooned at the farm when out of school. Neville was a busy man and June ran the farmhouse. Farming involves dedication unsocial hours and probably left little time to serve Jeremy’s social needs. Sundays undoubtedly were the ‘Sabbath’ with church high on the agenda. He does not even mention Sunday school.

Boarding School


We know he hated Gresham’s he has said so and blamed his parents for sending him. It took him away from what friends he may have had or made, to a new world where he had to start all over again. His lack of previous socialisation led to him being teased and tormented and if some reports are true, sexually assaulted. Again he says little of his friendships at Gresham’s but even if there were a few, once term ended for holidays it was back to the farm, with little chance to mix with his boarding school chums. His local friends such as they were had probably moved on to new social groupings, it is what happens.

Colchester


It is true to say that Sixth form College offered new opportunities to socialise given the nature of the town. A large university nearby, an army camp, much more suited to the teenager he had become. But again he was a long bus journey away and Colchester also draws students from an even larger catchment area. I am not sure when he first had a car but again he was pretty isolated.

The Education system

Today children who display unusual behaviour patterns are identified and assessed at an early age as part of a modern education system. Hopefully disorders and other problems are treated sympathetically. It is hard to believe but Dyslexia, about which much is known, was thought in the 1980’s to be a problem of middle class children who were ‘just not very bright’. Small wonder then that Jeremy’s difficulties were not picked up at Gresham’s. We now have schools to cater for a range of problem children with special educational needs like EBD, ADHD, ESN, Autism, etc. Some may be taught in mainstream with help and support.

I believe Jeremy to be normal but I do think that his early development was compromised from a social relationship point of view and if it had been spotted he could have been deemed Socially Maladjusted. See http://schoolpsychologistfiles.com/emdisability/ . Although based on school age children the table I think suggests some form of Social Maladjustment.

This condition is thought to emanate from maternal deprivation. June’s parenting style was imitative. Like many of her generation she used her mother as a model. Today we are much more attuned to parenting styles. The thinking was ‘I’m ok, I’m a good person, and it never did me any harm, and this therefore must be the way. Parenting styles have also become more democratic and less authoritarian. The faulty models of the past have given way to a more enlightened and informed approach.
So that’s my take on what he was at that time. Since then after his lengthy incarceration he may have changed again, especially given the devastating experience he has suffered. Large numbers of prisoners can develop types of Antisocial Personality Disorders. (APSD) so any evaluation of him needs to take this into account. We should judge him as he was not how he is.

What was he?

The Australians might have called him a Larrikin (Larrikin is an Australian English term meaning "a mischievous young person, an uncultivated, rowdy but good hearted person", or "a person who acts with apparent disregard for social or political conventions". In the UK perhaps a juvenile delinquent, an oddball or a bit weird or that he was somehow ‘not right’ might have been applied.

He was a small time drug dealer but no Pablo Escobar. He was a thief who stole from his own family and possibly committed theft overseas but by all accounts was popular among his close associates. He had wealth and was generous with and towards his friends.

He was not prejudiced in that he openly mixed with the Gay community at a time when the liberal views see today were frowned upon by mainstream opinion
.
He told lies and made outrages statements and outwardly was seen as arrogant and lacking in empathy. He would blame others particularly his parents for aspects of his upbringing. He felt constrained by his circumstances. He resented his sister and the time his parents had to spend dealing with her difficulties. He was not cruel to animals but could hurt people in a nonphysical manner. His relationships with the opposite sex were not that usual. Popular with the ladies for his looks and cool demeanour he would cheat in his relationships. Some describe him as a playboy.

He played practical jokes on friends, family and associates and would tease and pull peoples legs. (It is known that victims can become victimisers e.g. child sexual abuse) Were these aspects of his personality learnt at Gresham’s and was some of this learned from Nevill?

He would have fantasies about all sorts of things like killing his parents and committing the perfect murder. These may have been the marijuana induced.
 
I believe he created a persona for himself and that his relationship with Julie was unhealthy, some might call it mental cruelty or abuse by controlling behavior. Because she was so besotted with him he could live a game with her for his own enjoyment, stringing her along with all kinds of tales about why and how he had done it, teasing her knowing it was lies and that she would not leave him and that because it was all fantasy he would never be charged. That is why her statements have a ‘ring of truth’ and why he has never seriously challenged them. Which of course he cannot it’s just his word against hers. How wrong he was. It is possible that if she asked him ‘did you do it’ he said ‘of course not I hired a hit man’. This may be just a seriously damaging statement said in jest but given what may actually have occurred a truly disastrous comment because of pure coincidence.
He had created or developed the ideal profile for some members of the Essex police to frame him.














Offline Adam

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #454 on: January 16, 2024, 05:14:PM »
Julie's WS is backed up by the forensic and circumstantial evidence. Which shows Sheila did not committ the massacre.

No point Bamber denying involvement to her after the previous 18 months.

Several reasons why Bamber would give himself a proxy and choose MM.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #455 on: January 16, 2024, 08:09:PM »
Crime is crime however minor
True, but small beer compared to five murders.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #456 on: January 16, 2024, 08:12:PM »
She tried to smother the guy
With a pillow. As if it would kill a 23-year-old male.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #457 on: January 16, 2024, 08:27:PM »
That is a bit of a stretch. Because he is self obsessed and behaved in a cavalier fashion it does not mean he did it. Many people have warped personalities and if that was the case there would be a lot more murders. Having a callous personality does not mean he did murder his family it just makes him a not very nice person.

Perhaps you would be good enough to read this rather lengthy analysis.

10/01/20
Who is Jeremy Bamber?
Background
He’s a psychopath. He is suffering from an extreme form of narcissism which enables him to blot out what he did to the extent that he believes he did not do it. Need I go on listing descriptions of his mental state? These are just two of many hundreds of descriptions of Jeremy Bamber by individuals who are not trained Clinical Psychologists and have never even met him. Even when he passes a polygraph test he is denounced. It is claimed it only measures stress and because of his ‘Hannibal Lector’ personality he can condition himself in order to pass. All of this flies in the face of information that is in the public domain that he has been examined, assessed and interviewed by many professionals and pronounced normal. I assume this information is true.

They fail to appreciate that a lack of empathy is not confined to narcissism or psychopathy but is also shared with other conditions like Asperger’s syndrome and Social Maladjustment. Further most if not all conditions are sub divided into mild moderate and severe categories. A person may display a collection of traits but using just a few and then associating them to a diagnosis is wrong. Ask a Clinical Psychologist.
Why is he subjected to such extreme vitriol and hatred? Given the venom they dispense one might question aspects of their mental states.

I believe there are a number of reasons apart from their own possible warped mentality and dare I say it, plain ignorance. Sometimes people’s persecution of others which manifests itself in issues such as racism has its roots in self-loathing which is turned against others. They have a poor self-concept. As Maslow might say they are not self-actualised.

There are however some more practical explanations.

If you do not attribute this vicious and frenzied set of murders to Sheila it is perhaps logical to think that the perpetrator must have a mental disorder to enable them to carry out the act, (irrespective of any means, motive or opportunity), whilst at the same time this individual was maintaining that a person, who had a proven and diagnosed mental condition, was the real culprit
Since it is generally accepted that no third party was involved and with only circumstantial evidence available it becomes more important to examine Jeremy’s personality as a means of judging in one’s own mind his guilt or innocence.

The use of internet discussion forums and the tabloid press’s penchant for reheating old crimes together with TV documentaries also tend to focus attention on the persona of the convicted. This is more likely where there are issues of doubt about the conviction and the central character is maintaining innocence. Although other cases can be portrayed and discussed even when there is no doubt, such crimes are revisited only to satiate people’s fascination with the Macabre and ghoulish aspects of the particular case. The WHF murders have both these aspects.

To be a little fairer to the media some of this is caused by Jeremy himself as he tries to win his freedom. Unfortunately whilst these episodes help to keep his case in the ‘public eye’, they inevitably lead to more negative impressions since the media in most cases do not ask why he is behaving in this way but report in a negative way, upholding the status quo. They do not ask themselves ‘Why if these attempts to raise his profile as a MOJ provoke more negative rather than positive outcomes and sentiments does he continue to try to raise awareness in this way?’ Just look at the storm created by ‘The graveyard vlog’. I believe he has little choice.

Internet forums are ok but they can give way to bullying, trolling and a battle of egos as participants vie to be the top expert, the most knowledgeable when it comes to the purported facts and also the coveted title of the most vitriolic. Participants try to carve out a niche. The voice of reason, the fence sitter, the most patronising, the most sanctimonious, the most compassionate, the Joker, the wind up merchant, the wittiest, etc. are all roles that people play. Often the search for the real truth is submerged in a torrent of tit for tat arguments on the most mundane aspects of a case such as what the guilty party had for breakfast, as if some meaningful insight can be derived from such facts.

There are very rarely attempts to pursue lines of enquiry which are developed from things like brainstorming or lateral thinking and when they are they are usually buried in a fusillade of attacks on the poster. True attempts to get at the truth are quickly euthanised.

There is also a question of media manipulation which needs to be examined. Given the nature of the WHF case there are many vested interests in maintaining the verdict amongst a host of actors. There is no need for me to name them I am sure we all know who they are.

Given the notoriety of the case blackening Jeremy’s name and questioning his sanity given all the circumstances is a powerful way to keep him imprisoned. I have no doubt that there have been some form of ‘Black Ops’ programmes in play by some groups over various media channels and the prime weapon has been his personality. To all of this are the numerous books that have been written. My views on these are that it is wrong to trade in other people’s misery and pain for monetary gain. Purely academically researched tomes for study purposes are ok. I believe Colin should use his Royalties to fund work at GOSH in their name.

Given the amount of time that some people invest in the case particularly on forums, (or writing cranky notes to others), one must question their motives. Why do ‘Guilters’ do this, surely the man they believe to be guilty is behind bars why continue? I believe even some of them have doubts but use the personality issue to convince themselves they have come to the correct decision and seek justification by attacking the man they think he is. So who is he?
I will start by saying that in having no qualifications in Clinical Psychology, I am as bad as those I have denounced but I do have some thoughts and opinions.

Jeremy the early years

Jeremy was schooled at a private school in Maldon. It is likely that his friends came from a wide catchment area as it unlikely that the school could survive based on the small market town that it then was. There were not enough kids. Many were probably from similar backgrounds or the professional classes. Many of the inhabitants in this whole area were poor working class, farm workers and labourers. Neville did not want him to mix with kids who he might employ in later years.

WHF is isolated from Tolleshunt D’Arcy a place where when I knew it in the late 70’s early 80’s was mainly older people, very small (100 tops) and with few children and families. Tollesbury where I used to visit though larger with a greater demographic mix was also quite small but was linked to D’Arcy by two country lanes which had no pavement access and were dangerous to walk with heavy farm vehicles lorries and many cars. Goldhanger, Maldon, Witham and other local villages like Tiptree posed similar problems Public transport was only by the local private company Osborne’s. I believe he had little opportunity to mix and socialise with his peers. He never writes about his mates, playing sports such as football with others. I guess his main contacts were his sister and cousins but how frequently? Unless his parents ferried him to activities like cubs, scouts, etc. or made a conscious effort for him to play with friends on a regular basis he would spend much of his time marooned at the farm when out of school. Neville was a busy man and June ran the farmhouse. Farming involves dedication unsocial hours and probably left little time to serve Jeremy’s social needs. Sundays undoubtedly were the ‘Sabbath’ with church high on the agenda. He does not even mention Sunday school.

Boarding School


We know he hated Gresham’s he has said so and blamed his parents for sending him. It took him away from what friends he may have had or made, to a new world where he had to start all over again. His lack of previous socialisation led to him being teased and tormented and if some reports are true, sexually assaulted. Again he says little of his friendships at Gresham’s but even if there were a few, once term ended for holidays it was back to the farm, with little chance to mix with his boarding school chums. His local friends such as they were had probably moved on to new social groupings, it is what happens.

Colchester


It is true to say that Sixth form College offered new opportunities to socialise given the nature of the town. A large university nearby, an army camp, much more suited to the teenager he had become. But again he was a long bus journey away and Colchester also draws students from an even larger catchment area. I am not sure when he first had a car but again he was pretty isolated.

The Education system

Today children who display unusual behaviour patterns are identified and assessed at an early age as part of a modern education system. Hopefully disorders and other problems are treated sympathetically. It is hard to believe but Dyslexia, about which much is known, was thought in the 1980’s to be a problem of middle class children who were ‘just not very bright’. Small wonder then that Jeremy’s difficulties were not picked up at Gresham’s. We now have schools to cater for a range of problem children with special educational needs like EBD, ADHD, ESN, Autism, etc. Some may be taught in mainstream with help and support.

I believe Jeremy to be normal but I do think that his early development was compromised from a social relationship point of view and if it had been spotted he could have been deemed Socially Maladjusted. See http://schoolpsychologistfiles.com/emdisability/ . Although based on school age children the table I think suggests some form of Social Maladjustment.

This condition is thought to emanate from maternal deprivation. June’s parenting style was imitative. Like many of her generation she used her mother as a model. Today we are much more attuned to parenting styles. The thinking was ‘I’m ok, I’m a good person, and it never did me any harm, and this therefore must be the way. Parenting styles have also become more democratic and less authoritarian. The faulty models of the past have given way to a more enlightened and informed approach.
So that’s my take on what he was at that time. Since then after his lengthy incarceration he may have changed again, especially given the devastating experience he has suffered. Large numbers of prisoners can develop types of Antisocial Personality Disorders. (APSD) so any evaluation of him needs to take this into account. We should judge him as he was not how he is.

What was he?

The Australians might have called him a Larrikin (Larrikin is an Australian English term meaning "a mischievous young person, an uncultivated, rowdy but good hearted person", or "a person who acts with apparent disregard for social or political conventions". In the UK perhaps a juvenile delinquent, an oddball or a bit weird or that he was somehow ‘not right’ might have been applied.

He was a small time drug dealer but no Pablo Escobar. He was a thief who stole from his own family and possibly committed theft overseas but by all accounts was popular among his close associates. He had wealth and was generous with and towards his friends.

He was not prejudiced in that he openly mixed with the Gay community at a time when the liberal views see today were frowned upon by mainstream opinion
.
He told lies and made outrages statements and outwardly was seen as arrogant and lacking in empathy. He would blame others particularly his parents for aspects of his upbringing. He felt constrained by his circumstances. He resented his sister and the time his parents had to spend dealing with her difficulties. He was not cruel to animals but could hurt people in a nonphysical manner. His relationships with the opposite sex were not that usual. Popular with the ladies for his looks and cool demeanour he would cheat in his relationships. Some describe him as a playboy.

He played practical jokes on friends, family and associates and would tease and pull peoples legs. (It is known that victims can become victimisers e.g. child sexual abuse) Were these aspects of his personality learnt at Gresham’s and was some of this learned from Nevill?

He would have fantasies about all sorts of things like killing his parents and committing the perfect murder. These may have been the marijuana induced.
 
I believe he created a persona for himself and that his relationship with Julie was unhealthy, some might call it mental cruelty or abuse by controlling behavior. Because she was so besotted with him he could live a game with her for his own enjoyment, stringing her along with all kinds of tales about why and how he had done it, teasing her knowing it was lies and that she would not leave him and that because it was all fantasy he would never be charged. That is why her statements have a ‘ring of truth’ and why he has never seriously challenged them. Which of course he cannot it’s just his word against hers. How wrong he was. It is possible that if she asked him ‘did you do it’ he said ‘of course not I hired a hit man’. This may be just a seriously damaging statement said in jest but given what may actually have occurred a truly disastrous comment because of pure coincidence.
He had created or developed the ideal profile for some members of the Essex police to frame him.
Some factual errors, but my main objection is that this is a parti pris piece written with the sole motivation of exculpating Jeremy Bamber.

Online ILB

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #458 on: January 17, 2024, 11:58:AM »
With a pillow. As if it would kill a 23-year-old male.

The thing is though, if the roles were reversed and Jeremy had tried to smother Julie, guilters would be highlighting it as an example of his abusive behaviour at any given opportunity.

But as it's a " 20 year old naive girl " who did the attempted smothering, we are supposed to just brush it under the carpet
« Last Edit: January 17, 2024, 12:01:PM by ILB »
If yesterday you hated me. Then today you can not stop the love that binds from me to you. And you to me

Offline Adam

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #459 on: January 17, 2024, 01:42:PM »
The thing is though, if the roles were reversed and Jeremy had tried to smother Julie, guilters would be highlighting it as an example of his abusive behaviour at any given opportunity.

But as it's a " 20 year old naive girl " who did the attempted smothering, we are supposed to just brush it under the carpet

Julie is the person who brought up the pillow smothering. In her WS.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline snow66!

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #460 on: January 17, 2024, 06:40:PM »
Sorry to interupt,has anyone been having problems logging on in the last week? Every time I tried it said it was unsafe and that hackers may be trying to steal passwords and so on.Finally managed to log in tonightwithout trying to override the warning.

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #461 on: January 17, 2024, 06:46:PM »
Sorry to interupt,has anyone been having problems logging on in the last week? Every time I tried it said it was unsafe and that hackers may be trying to steal passwords and so on.Finally managed to log in tonightwithout trying to override the warning.
Yes i have Snow, it seems to be ok now

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #462 on: January 17, 2024, 07:15:PM »
Sorry to interupt,has anyone been having problems logging on in the last week? Every time I tried it said it was unsafe and that hackers may be trying to steal passwords and so on.Finally managed to log in tonightwithout trying to override the warning.

Yes there was a problem which started yesterday.  I finally managed to sort it out about an hour ago.  The security certificate for some reason was not working, even though it is valid.  The web hosting company responded very slowly but finally restored it.  I happened a few months ago and took several days to sort out.  It is very irritating, especially in view of the money charged by the web host.
 

Offline snow66!

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #463 on: January 17, 2024, 07:33:PM »
Yes i have Snow, it seems to be ok now
Thanks HB.

Offline snow66!

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Re: Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination
« Reply #464 on: January 17, 2024, 07:35:PM »
Yes there was a problem which started yesterday.  I finally managed to sort it out about an hour ago.  The security certificate for some reason was not working, even though it is valid.  The web hosting company responded very slowly but finally restored it.  I happened a few months ago and took several days to sort out.  It is very irritating, especially in view of the money charged by the web host.
Thanks ngb,thats fine,now I know its nothing serious.