Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination

[Rob_]

From gulity I can see a bike there walk back scenario but not both ways

Speed in getting their is not important ILB, getting back it is critical.

[Rob_]

Maybe it would take less than 2 hours.

The wow factor of where these places were made me instantly think 2 hours.

Anyway, a heck of a walk.

No 4 miles is nothing, but in the dark walking is much safer, problem is the times don't work.

[Adam]

No 4 miles is nothing, but in the dark walking is much safer, problem is the times don't work.

You think he walked 8.4 miles that night?

[ILB]

Speed in getting their is not important ILB, getting back it is critical.

I do agree Rob.

In the sense for the latter it's time to collect his thoughts. He had just executed five members of his family if indeed he is the culprit.

But I will always stand by the car scenario if gulity

Think the bike is a prosecution clever narrative.

It's an eight minute drive in 1985 in rural Essex 16 in total !

[Rob_]

You think he walked 8.4 miles that night?

No he was in bed, but on foot is the only way to my mind and he could take a more direct route.

[ILB]

If he had left the bike at WHF and walked back. That would have possibly helped him at trial, as the prosecutions narrative was he used the bike. It would also contradict Julie's claim of him planning to use the bike. Of course prosecution would then say he cycled there and walked back.

He could have walked there and back. There is a source in one of the books that Nevill says after a family argument " Jeremy will walk it off, don't worry. Seems that Jeremy if in a strop would get to his feet and walk miles home if they'd had been out at a family get together. He was also 24 and reasonably fit.

[Rob_]

If he had left the bike at WHF and walked back. That would have possibly helped him at trial, as the prosecutions narrative was he used the bike. It would also contradict Julie's claim of him planning to use the bike. Of course prosecution would then say he cycled there and walked back.

He could have walked there and back. There is a source in one of the books that Nevill says after a family argument " Jeremy will walk it off, don't worry. Seems that Jeremy if in a strop would get to his feet and walk miles home if they'd had been out at a family get together. He was also 24 and reasonably fit.

People can say whatever they like "Jeremy did this or that" etc. the problem is there is no evidence he actually did. As regards the bike I still maintain that cycling 8 miles over rough tracks in the country side would leave pretty obvious tell tale evidence. Likewise with exiting the kitchen window this would have been pretty obvious to any keen eyed copper.

[ILB]

People can say whatever they like "Jeremy did this or that" etc. the problem is there is no evidence he actually did. As regards the bike I still maintain that cycling 8 miles over rough tracks in the country side would leave pretty obvious tell tale evidence. Likewise with exiting the kitchen window this would have been pretty obvious to any keen eyed copper.

There's no way he could have got out the kitchen window and made it shut securely from the outside with a turn handle.( Which is on the inside. Not possible

The right window is stationary

[Adam]

There's no way he could have got out the kitchen window and made it shut securely from the outside with a turn handle.( Which is on the inside. Not possible

The right window is stationary

Bamber banged the kitchen window from outside. So the latch fell into place.

I have never read that the defence said was not possible to do.

He told Julie of this window and the housekeeper said static things around the window had been moved. 

[ILB]

Bamber banged the kitchen window from outside. So the latch fell into place.

I have never read that the defence said was not possible to do.

He told Julie of this window and the housekeeper said static things around the window had been moved.

I'm wondering how a latch can fall into place? That's a turn handle with a click. It would require someone on the inside to do it.

[Adam]

I'm wondering how a latch can fall into place? That's a turn handle with a click. It would require someone on the inside to do it.

In a big old house not surprising there was a window that could be manipulated.

It was a case of trial and error and finding it.

[ILB]

In a big old house not surprising there was a window that could be manipulated.

It was a case of trial and error and finding it.

Seems the CT are championing this window

[ILB]

I have never read that the defence said was not possible to do.

Neither have I, but that definitely is a turn window mechanism with a click.


He could bang the window closed from the outside of course, but the handle wouldn't turn, unless it was knackered and fell downwards and gave the impression it was secure

Bamber claims in trial evidence that both he and Barbara Wilson had a back door key. He could have exited via that I guess.

[Adam]

Seems the CT are championing this window

Believe they are saying the bottom latch is not in it's pegs.

This just highlights more that it was banged shut from outside.

Hopefully they mention Julie and the housekeeper regarding this.

[Roch]

The window catch had been replaced in July 1985.