Re: Julie Mugford Trial examination/cross examination

[Adam]

A bike was also needed for practical reasons. Too tiring and too long a journey on foot.

If he did believe he had been seen on the way there, he could abort and turn back on a bike.

Having to abort after 3 miles with no bike would mean 6 miles of non stop walking. With no rewards.

[Jane]

Thus far, nothing has been said about Julie's testimony. Astounding, as previously she's she's come close to being accused of witchcraft! I found the dynamic between her and Rivlin very interesting. I'd go so far as saying, at times, she appeared to have him on the back foot -extraordinary for a man of his vast experience- at times, she made him look like a complete novice by the way she challenged him, causing comment from Justice Drake. Her evidence was clear, concise, and articulate. Not once did she claim to 'know' anything other than what she claimed JB told her. She accepted the offers of a chair, and a glass of water, but there appeared nothing of 'drama queen/prima donna' about her. Hardly surprising that Justice Drake said of her evidence "It has the ring of truth".

It was of great interest to learn that, contrary to my initial belief, Julie hadn't accompanied JB when he drove Sheila home from Colin's party. I've always wondered what passed between the three of them. It's even more tantalizing, given that Julie wasn't present, to ponder on what may have passed between brother and sister during that journey.

[Adam]

A bike wasn't just a good to/from WHF vehicle.

It was a good 'abort' vehicle.

If he believed he had been seen on the way there. Or decided half way there he could not go through with it.

[ILB]

A bike wasn't just a good to/from WHF vehicle.

It was a good 'abort' vehicle.

If he believed he had been seen on the way there. Or decided half way there he could not go through with it.

A bike is also much more identifiable than a car especially by a person on foot. A car is a car going past. A bike could allow a clear ID, or a description of let's say " male, early twenties brown hair, slim cycling"

It's true people can remember numberplates but theyd have no reason to believe the car had been used to transport a killer on his murderous journey at that time

[ILB]

Bamber would be well known in the area. His dad was a pillar of the community and also an employer.

Bamber is lucky in this regard having never been seen or identified if he is indeed guilty. In the sense of that it would be futile to try and even plan to appeal the conviction. It would have been put to bed in 1986 at trial. From a gulity perspective the non identification assists him in that regard

The prosecution didn't even need " a clear ID of Jeremy Bamber on a bike " just a " man in his twenties would have tied him to it" strong circumstantial evidence. Didn't have to be a crystal clear ID

[ILB]

Seems that if gulity Bamber didn't worry about the bike being an issue if he did indeed use it. He could have cycled there and then returned to his cottage on foot leaving the impression that the bike had never left WHF. As we both agree if gulity he didn't have time constraints in this particular regard

Seems from a gulity Bamber scenario he just expected to be believed and didn't expect to encounter any hassle

[Adam]

A bike is also much more identifiable than a car especially by a person on foot. A car is a car going past. A bike could allow a clear ID, or a description of let's say " male, early twenties brown hair, slim cycling"

It's true people can remember numberplates but theyd have no reason to believe the car had been used to transport a killer on his murderous journey at that time

The Sea Wall is a foot/cycle path. If someone else is out in that area, they will be on the Sea Wall.

If he crosses paths with someone else, he will certainly know.

That is why a bike is useful. He can double back if seen on the way to WHF.

Believe the chance of someone else being on the Sea Wall between midnight & 3am was 1 in a 1000.

[Adam]

Seems that if gulity Bamber didn't worry about the bike being an issue if he did indeed use it. He could have cycled there and then returned to his cottage on door leaving the impression that the bike had never left WHF. As we both agree if gulity he didn't have time constraints in this particular regard

Seems from a gulity Bamber scenario he just expected to be believed and didn't expect to encounter any hassle

Yes he told Julie it was an 'open and shut case' and he was 'watertight'. His actions afterwards show he was confident.

Leaving the bike at WHF would have helped. But 4.2 miles is a long way back to Head Street.

[ILB]

The Sea Wall is a foot/cycle path. If someone else is out in that area, they will be on the Sea Wall.

If he crosses paths with someone else, he will certainly know.

That is why a bike is useful. He can double back if seen on the way to WHF.

Believe the chance of someone else being on the Sea Wall between midnight & 3am was 1 in a 1000.

We have discussed the sea wall on many occasions

Would be interesting to see the state of the sea wall back in 1985. I'm not local to the area and I've tried looking it up on Google in the past year or so but can't get a clear picture.

Someone will confirm the geography, but where does the sea wall end in terms of entering WHF? I understand the road routes are pages lane.

[Rob_]

The furthest I walk is to my nearest train station. Which is 0.7 miles. That takes 20 minutes and I'm a fast walker.

So walking 4.2 miles would take 2 hours. So that is ruled out.

He would have had to arrive at WHF before midnight. People may still be awake.

I could walk 4 miles in a bit over one hour, 2 hours is just fabrication and misleading posting Adam. Also walking JB could take a more direct route no need to use the sea wall.

[Adam]

I could walk 4 miles in a bit over one hour, 2 hours is just fabrication and misleading posting Adam. Also walking JB could take a more direct route no need to use the sea wall.

I checked 4.2 miles from where I live. Certainly could not walk to these places in less than 2 hours.

It is not clear whether a direct route was an option. Terrain, ditches, hedges, houses may have made this not possible.

[Rob_]

I checked 4.2 miles from where I live. Certainly could not walk to these places in less than 2 hours.

It is not clear whether a direct route was an option. Terrain, ditches, hedges, houses may have made this not possible.

You said you were a fast walker Adam, 4 miles in two hours is slow!

[ILB]

I checked 4.2 miles from where I live. Certainly could not walk to these places in less than 2 hours.

It is not clear whether a direct route was an option. Terrain, ditches, hedges, houses may have made this not possible.

From gulity I can see a bike there walk back scenario but not both ways

[Adam]

From gulity I can see a bike there walk back scenario but not both ways

Why is that?

[Adam]

You said you were a fast walker Adam, 4 miles in two hours is slow!

Maybe it would take less than 2 hours.

The wow factor of where these places were made me instantly think 2 hours.

Anyway, a heck of a walk.