Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall

[ILB]

Bamber denied he knew the route.

Source provided.

Obviously you can say " it's obvious he didn't " but theres also the possibility he didn't know it

[ILB]

You're  an absolute liar regarding lots of sources supplied!

The only source you provided was GG, who used artificial light and took his blog down once challenged.

Couples in Surrey, Americans on Reddit, and Christmas trees and cartoon images are not valid sources.

[ILB]

I could literally go on the net now and find various sources of people who have struggled to cycle at night. Through fields and unlit tracks

But what's the point when common sense dictates that anyway!

[Cambridgecutie]

Do you believe everything you read?

A full Moon gives out nothing like as much light as a streetlight something like 100x less.

I say Bamber would have walked, ILB says he would have driven we are are not saying the trip was impossible.

The question I have for you is Bamber could have walked / jogged somewhere between 4 to 6 miles per hour. What speed could he cycle at on roughish terrain in the dark? if it's much less than 10 mph he might as well go on foot.

Do you really have no idea how much light you get on a moonlit night?  I see it with my own eyes, I don't need to read about it.

I go out on my bike at night and make regular night rides because I enjoy it.  I do it all the time, and I take photographs of the landscape and night sky, to give me something creative to do whilst I'm out there.

Technically speaking you might not get as much light as when you are standing under a streetlight, but with a full moon, you get an amount of light that will always surprise you.  It seems impossible that you could get so much light from the moon.  You wouldn't predict it if you didn't already know.

But Jeremy Bamber would be familiar with that feeling, because he lived in the country and often worked until it got dark.  Living where there are no street lights you'd be very aware of the effect of moonlight.

As for walking speeds, average walking speeds are more like 2.5 to 4 miles an hour.  On his mums bike on footpaths, he'd be doing double/treble that, and treble and faster on roads.

The simplest answer is often the correct one, so he probably cycled.  Also he took his mums bike a few days before, so everything fits.

Cycling would have been quite easy, not impossible or laughable as Jeremy Bamber falsely stated.  If he was innocent he wouldn't have said that.  If you had never done a night ride before and you was innocent, then you wouldn't know one way or another how easy or hard it was.  And yet he was emphatic that it was both impossible and laughable.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[Adam]

I could literally go on the net now and find various sources of people who have struggled to cycle at night. Through fields and unlit tracks

But what's the point when common sense dictates that anyway!

Please provide the sources.

You should have provided them before.

[Adam]

Do you really have no idea how much light you get on a moonlit night?  I see it with my own eyes, I don't need to read about it.

I go out on my bike at night and make regular night rides because I enjoy it.  I do it all the time, and I take photographs of the landscape and night sky, to give me something creative to do whilst I'm out there.

Technically speaking you might not get as much light as when you are standing under a streetlight, but with a full moon, you get an amount of light that will always surprise you.  It seems impossible that you could get so much light from the moon.  You wouldn't predict it if you didn't already know.

But Jeremy Bamber would be familiar with that feeling, because he lived in the country and often worked until it got dark.  Living where there are no street lights you'd be very aware of the effect of moonlight.

As for walking speeds, average walking speeds are more like 2.5 to 4 miles an hour.  On his mums bike on footpaths, he'd be doing double/treble that, and treble and faster on roads.

The simplest answer is often the correct one, so he probably cycled.  Also he took his mums bike a few days before, so everything fits.

Cycling would have been quite easy, not impossible or laughable as Jeremy Bamber falsely stated.  If he was innocent he wouldn't have said that.  If you had never done a night ride before and you was innocent, then you wouldn't know one way or another how easy or hard it was.  And yet he was emphatic that it was both impossible and laughable.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Yes cycling is much quicker than walking. I do both.

A 25 minute walk I cycle in 5 minutes & that is cycling at my own pace.

That is 80% quicker and easier.

[ILB]

Obviously people like Jeremy, myself and Mike will be much more untrustworthy of the police as we have all had our lifes wrecked by the authorities.

But that doesn't skewer my views.

[ILB]

Do you really have no idea how much light you get on a moonlit night?  I see it with my own eyes, I don't need to read about it.

I go out on my bike at night and make regular night rides because I enjoy it.  I do it all the time, and I take photographs of the landscape and night sky, to give me something creative to do whilst I'm out there.

Technically speaking you might not get as much light as when you are standing under a streetlight, but with a full moon, you get an amount of light that will always surprise you.  It seems impossible that you could get so much light from the moon.  You wouldn't predict it if you didn't already know.

But Jeremy Bamber would be familiar with that feeling, because he lived in the country and often worked until it got dark.  Living where there are no street lights you'd be very aware of the effect of moonlight.

As for walking speeds, average walking speeds are more like 2.5 to 4 miles an hour.  On his mums bike on footpaths, he'd be doing double/treble that, and treble and faster on roads.

The simplest answer is often the correct one, so he probably cycled.  Also he took his mums bike a few days before, so everything fits.

Cycling would have been quite easy, not impossible or laughable as Jeremy Bamber falsely stated.  If he was innocent he wouldn't have said that.  If you had never done a night ride before and you was innocent, then you wouldn't know one way or another how easy or hard it was.  And yet he was emphatic that it was both impossible and laughable.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Thank you killing eve.

[Adam]

It is a scientific fact that humans have vision in outside darkness.

Not enough to read or define colours. But enough to move around.

How much vision depends on various factors.

[Adam]

We do know about Bamber's route -

It is in the open.

Bamber was brought up, lived and worked in villages with no artificial lighting. 

Bamber knew the route.

Bamber had good eyesight in 1985.

Bamber would farm the land in darkness.

I am waiting for Killingeve's source that the moon was at 68% on the night. Obviously that percentage and other factors above would result in very good vision.

[Adam]

I don't believe Bamber would have made a big effort to get extra lighting for his cycle ride.

If there was a torch at WHF or Goldhanger, or one of June's other bikes had a light, then he may have used these.

If he used a helmet with a light for farming, he could use that.

Otherwise he would just cycle using his area knowledge, fitness & motivation. Using the ambient light.

[ILB]

I'm not buying the gish gash technique.

But it's a valiant effort.

You can firefight it as much as you like with pointless sources.

[Rob_]

Do you really have no idea how much light you get on a moonlit night?  I see it with my own eyes, I don't need to read about it.

I go out on my bike at night and make regular night rides because I enjoy it.  I do it all the time, and I take photographs of the landscape and night sky, to give me something creative to do whilst I'm out there.

Technically speaking you might not get as much light as when you are standing under a streetlight, but with a full moon, you get an amount of light that will always surprise you.  It seems impossible that you could get so much light from the moon.  You wouldn't predict it if you didn't already know.

But Jeremy Bamber would be familiar with that feeling, because he lived in the country and often worked until it got dark.  Living where there are no street lights you'd be very aware of the effect of moonlight.

As for walking speeds, average walking speeds are more like 2.5 to 4 miles an hour.  On his mums bike on footpaths, he'd be doing double/treble that, and treble and faster on roads.

The simplest answer is often the correct one, so he probably cycled.  Also he took his mums bike a few days before, so everything fits.

Cycling would have been quite easy, not impossible or laughable as Jeremy Bamber falsely stated.  If he was innocent he wouldn't have said that.  If you had never done a night ride before and you was innocent, then you wouldn't know one way or another how easy or hard it was.  And yet he was emphatic that it was both impossible and laughable.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

I rarely cycle but often work all through the night, so I don't need to be told how much light the Moon gives out. To be fair to you my eyes don't become night adapted as I am using torches etc.

This would also apply to Bamber, he would have jumped out of the kitchen window and his eyes would have taken a while to become night adapted.

I have been speaking to very keen cyclists at work, asking them about cycling with no lights in the country side. To be honest they look at me like I am mad and laugh.

We need to be very careful on time of year and the time of day, makes a big difference.

The only times I have almost not needed a torch are in places of heavy light pollution and low cloud cover.

[Rob_]

Yes cycling is much quicker than walking. I do both.

A 25 minute walk I cycle in 5 minutes & that is cycling at my own pace.

That is 80% quicker and easier.

I just look at the numbers a fast walk is around 4mph, jogging takes that up to 6mph.

Cycling would easily beat this but I don't believe you would achieve even 10mph in total darkness.

Cycling is not 5 times faster than walking, unless you are doing 20mph and no chance of doing this in the dark on rough terrain.

[Rob_]

We do know about Bamber's route -

It is in the open.

Bamber was brought up, lived and worked in villages with no artificial lighting. 

Bamber knew the route.

Bamber had good eyesight in 1985.

Bamber would farm the land in darkness.

I am waiting for Killingeve's source that the moon was at 68% on the night. Obviously that percentage and other factors above would result in very good vision.

I think that was my post I said it was 65% but low in the sky? Killingeve said the Moon was three quarters that night.

What you need to remember is that there is a big difference between a full Moon and say a half Moon because of the direction of light from the Sun. So you cannot take the relative areas of the phase the difference could be 5 or 6 times less than what you would expect