Author Topic: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall  (Read 82102 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1680 on: June 20, 2024, 05:00:PM »
I imagine the hatred was so ingrained that it wouldn't have been too long before his feelings were sussed, ie, Couldn't leave because he had too much to loose. Parents controlling his life. Sister getting freebies, etc, etc. I imagine that everyone who knew him would have been aware.

I wonder if he'd have been jealous of the sort of lifestyle/jobs being enjoyed by his peer group, ie, jobs which he may have seen as being more interesting/having status/being financially rewarding in the present?
Jane, do you think at the beginning of the working day amongst the other hired labourers Nevill chose to treat his son just as any other employee when allotting tasks and do you think Jeremy might not properly have understood his father's reason for doing this?

Offline Hardy Boy

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1681 on: June 20, 2024, 05:04:PM »
Jane, do you think at the beginning of the working day amongst the other hired labourers Nevill chose to treat his son just as any other employee when allotting tasks and do you think Jeremy might not properly have understood his father's reason for doing this?
Thats a good point Steve and one I am familiar with, I worked with my Dad in the mines and he was in charge, he treat me as one of his men at work and I accepted it and it couldn’t be no other way.  I had to take orders just the same as the other men.

Offline Jane

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1682 on: June 20, 2024, 06:01:PM »
Jane, do you think at the beginning of the working day amongst the other hired labourers Nevill chose to treat his son just as any other employee when allotting tasks and do you think Jeremy might not properly have understood his father's reason for doing this?


I'm perfectly certain you're correct, Steve. My father worked for a large company and when Lord X decided it was time for his son to join, he asked my father to tutor him, show him the ropes from the ground up. It worked very well. In Jeremy's case, possibly -because of his adoption?- he felt unworthy and of less value than the paid employees?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1683 on: June 20, 2024, 06:19:PM »

I'm perfectly certain you're correct, Steve. My father worked for a large company and when Lord X decided it was time for his son to join, he asked my father to tutor him, show him the ropes from the ground up. It worked very well. In Jeremy's case, possibly -because of his adoption?- he felt unworthy and of less value than the paid employees?
I think there was always a distance between them, as Brett Collins mentioned in Hardy Boy's excerpt in #1677. Not sure Jeremy resented adoption as such; it was the trappings of wealth he desired without the aptitude to accomplish, and had he been handed the wherewithal on a plate I'm sure his adoption status would have been quietly overlooked. Did he ever taunt his father on being unable to conceive naturally: there's no mention in the books, though there is reference to part of June's anatomy meaning she was unable to bear children. Whether Jeremy was cognizant of any of this is a moot point.

Offline Jane

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1684 on: June 20, 2024, 06:27:PM »
I think there was always a distance between them, as Brett Collins mentioned in Hardy Boy's excerpt in #1677. Not sure Jeremy resented adoption as such; it was the trappings of wealth he desired without the aptitude to accomplish, and had he been handed the wherewithal on a plate I'm sure his adoption status would have been quietly overlooked. Did he ever taunt his father on being unable to conceive naturally: there's no mention in the books, though there is reference to part of June's anatomy meaning she was unable to bear children. Whether Jeremy was cognizant of any of this is a moot point.


What caused the thought was the episode where Jeremy was told of his adoption, then, within months despatched to boarding school where his adoption was used against him. Whether or not he was aware of all this when he -the owner's son!- was placed in the lowest position possible on the farm, I can't say, but we may be sure he'd have felt the effects. Obtaining money -in abundance- would have been his way of rising above the indignities he'd suffered.

Online ILB

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1685 on: June 20, 2024, 09:23:PM »
Jeremy and Nevill did have a warm relationship I believe to a degree. Nevill being a nostalgic character keeping momentous of Jeremy growing up. Both father and son playing snooker together. Take the case aside. Believe when Jeremy if he said it " I hate my fucking parents " was more in the sense of June than Nevill.  And if you believe Jeremy guilty you believe he told Julie " that I miss the old man "

Jeremy certainly related better to Nevill than June. Both had a good sense of humour ( I can personally vouch for the latter, he had myself in stitches at times in long lartin,) it was the normal father son relationship in many respects. No doubt Jeremy was a pain the arse. But I gather so was Shelia. They were young people. Boy George, the highlife, " loads of money " Nevill was old school, world war 2, a stalwart conservative, judicial man, churchgoer ( although probably due to his wife's convictions )

It's obviously their personalitys would clash. Nevill and June wanted a vicar of d'arcy type person. They got a Jeremy and Shelia.

It was Nevill who sent Jeremy to greshams, not June. The former have enjoyed his time at boarding school.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2024, 09:29:PM by ILB »
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Offline Jane

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1686 on: June 20, 2024, 09:30:PM »
Jeremy and Nevill did have a warm relationship I believe to a degree. Nevill being a nostalgic character keeping momentous of Jeremy growing up. Both father and son playing snooker together. Take the case aside. Believe when Jeremy if he said it " I hate my fucking parents " was more in the sense of June than Nevill.  And if you believe Jeremy guilty you believe he told Julie " that I miss the old man "

Jeremy certainly related better to Nevill than June. Both had a good sense of humour ( I can personally vouch for the latter, he had myself in stitches at time in long lartin,) it was the normal father son relationship in many respects.


I agree that he related better to Nevill than June. Warm is relative so I think his relationship with Nevill was warmer than with June. I emphatically believe he told Julie "I miss the old man"! Missing someone isn't tantamount to wanting them back. I have yet to find out what constitutes "normal".

Online ILB

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1687 on: June 20, 2024, 10:43:PM »

I agree that he related better to Nevill than June. Warm is relative so I think his relationship with Nevill was warmer than with June. I emphatically believe he told Julie "I miss the old man"! Missing someone isn't tantamount to wanting them back. I have yet to find out what constitutes "normal".

Believe Bamber getting rejected from his natural parents and learning he has a full blood brother and sister relates greatly to the scenario if he is a gulity party

In those days you just crack on with it. No one to turn to no mens mental health, no confiding. Stiff upper lip. Obviously resenment will form over time, to varying degrees depending on the person. Natural bodily reaction.

I have never ever believed it was " just for the cash " although would have been tempting. I believe when he killed if gulity he in his mind was fighting back to a perceived injustice he felt whether it be rrok childhood or anything.

People who knew him at the time describe him as being a " normal sort of fellow" " cocky yes, but I was a cocky git in my twenties ( still am!) as many young men are. It isn't far from the norm. The difference with Jeremy he is convicted of a ghastly crime. I think the reality of his life pre massacre was much more mundane to be honest.



« Last Edit: June 20, 2024, 10:49:PM by ILB »
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Online ILB

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1688 on: June 20, 2024, 10:53:PM »
We also have to remember that between both children. Shelia would have took up most of their attention. She had problems of no fault of her own. Jeremy whether you like him or not was seen as a much more grounded person than Shelia.

His adolescence apart from charging money from Nevill to see the world was a lot less troublesome. He displayed no obvious mental health problems. Nevill would have been more sympathetic to Shelia as she was probably a daddy's girl in many ways. When Jeremy approached Nevill with a problem it was probably met with a curt response of something like " just stop moaning Jeremy get on with it"

Nevill and June were still babysitting Shelia in her late twenties, Daniel and Nicholas, hospital stays,  Nevill having to drive down to London to comfort Shelia in the middle of the night ( whilst having a business to run and maintain ) June by Adams submission " cooking for Shelia  and taking meals to her "

But when I say "babysitting Shelia " I don't mean it to her detriment. She wasn't a well woman. She just needed looking after.

Seems Jeremy just wanted more dough from them. To be honest there's nothing much to differentiate Jeremy from a lot of young men in that regard. He seemed to like the high life and expensive tastes. I would have probably been the same if my parents were wealthy. My grandfather was wealthy and I was spoilt by him. Getting cars bought off him and such and other things. The only difference is my grandad was happy to offer me and my siblings these things. It wasn't a case of us saying " I want this I want that "

David Boutflour mentioned that June and Nevill were soft with both children and not strict. But I don't see Nevill or June to be pushover sort of people.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 08:05:AM by ILB »
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Offline Jane

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1689 on: June 21, 2024, 09:25:AM »
Believe Bamber getting rejected from his natural parents and learning he has a full blood brother and sister relates greatly to the scenario if he is a gulity party

In those days you just crack on with it. No one to turn to no mens mental health, no confiding. Stiff upper lip. Obviously resenment will form over time, to varying degrees depending on the person. Natural bodily reaction.

I have never ever believed it was " just for the cash " although would have been tempting. I believe when he killed if gulity he in his mind was fighting back to a perceived injustice he felt whether it be rrok childhood or anything.

People who knew him at the time describe him as being a " normal sort of fellow" " cocky yes, but I was a cocky git in my twenties ( still am!) as many young men are. It isn't far from the norm. The difference with Jeremy he is convicted of a ghastly crime. I think the reality of his life pre massacre was much more mundane to be honest.





We also have to remember that between both children. Shelia would have took up most of their attention. She had problems of no fault of her own. Jeremy whether you like him or not was seen as a much more grounded person than Shelia.

His adolescence apart from charging money from Nevill to see the world was a lot less troublesome. He displayed no obvious mental health problems. Nevill would have been more sympathetic to Shelia as she was probably a daddy's girl in many ways. When Jeremy approached Nevill with a problem it was probably met with a curt response of something like " just stop moaning Jeremy get on with it"

Nevill and June were still babysitting Shelia in her late twenties, Daniel and Nicholas, hospital stays,  Nevill having to drive down to London to comfort Shelia in the middle of the night ( whilst having a business to run and maintain ) June by Adams submission " cooking for Shelia  and taking meals to her "

But when I say "babysitting Shelia " I don't mean it to her detriment. She wasn't a well woman. She just needed looking after.

Seems Jeremy just wanted more dough from them. To be honest there's nothing much to differentiate Jeremy from a lot of young men in that regard. He seemed to like the high life and expensive tastes. I would have probably been the same if my parents were wealthy. My grandfather was wealthy and I was spoilt by him. Getting cars bought off him and such and other things. The only difference is my grandad was happy to offer me and my siblings these things. It wasn't a case of us saying " I want this I want that "

David Boutflour mentioned that June and Nevill were soft with both children and not strict. But I don't see Nevill or June to be pushover sort of people.


Well, the odds here are really stacking up against JB, aren't they? You've pointed out, quite rightly, that back in the 80's there was no help for men who had problems of the psychological type -and let's be honest, if JB had even thought his 'problem' to be any more than controlling parents and a spoilt sister, he'd have thought the next step would have been the "loony bin"- but it doesn't mean they didn't have those problems.

So now you've added sibling rivalry to the mix! Whilst, in most families, it's par for the course and a normal part of growing up, ie, Why do I have to go to bed first? Why don't I get as much pocket money? I wanted that one! etc, etc. Usually, the natural bonding between family members  kicks in and straightens things out. However, in some families, the rivalry can become much darker -usually, and in my experience, where significant wealth is part of the equation. So, from a young age, we have JB, before he knew he was adopted, knowing he'd come into megga money when he was older and all he had to do was fulfil certain obligations, but he probably saw his sister as getting everything she wanted without have to fulfil anything -NOT saying this was how it was, rather, it was as JB saw it unfolding. Clearly, the Bambers tried to balance the financial handouts. They paid for all Sheila's post school courses to find a suitable career, so they paid for JB Australasian trips, but it all stopped when Sheila failed at everything, other than becoming pregnant, and they subsequently provided her with a London apartment which, in the 80's was the place to be, and undoubtedly, JB longed to be there,,,,,,,,,,,,,except, for him, the handouts came to an end and his 'obligations' began. He probably saw that as being his life mapped out indefinitely. He had a choice. He could stay with it till he was middle aged, watching Sheila and her growing boys suck his inheritance dry, OR, the alternative was to take matters into his own hands.

Online ILB

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1690 on: June 21, 2024, 09:39:AM »
There's a lot of instances of people saying Jeremy kept moaning his parents kept him short of cash?

What was Shelia like in terms of asking for money? Was she as materialistic as Jeremy was?

Have read Colin's book. I enjoyed it. Colin seemed a friendly warm straight forward type of guy.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 09:42:AM by ILB »
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Offline Jane

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1691 on: June 21, 2024, 10:12:AM »
There's a lot of instances of people saying Jeremy kept moaning his parents kept him short of cash?

What was Shelia like in terms of asking for money? Was she as materialistic as Jeremy was?

Have read Colin's book. I enjoyed it. Colin seemed a friendly warm straight forward type of guy.


I don't think Sheila was in any way materialistic and I doubt Colin would have been attracted to such a woman. Such MAY have formed part of JB's resentment. She was given it without ever asking for it, ergo, she must have been their favourite child.

I, too, liked Colin. There was an authenticity about him which I enjoyed. He never tried to change to fit with the Bambers.

Online ILB

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1692 on: June 21, 2024, 10:15:AM »

I don't think Sheila was in any way materialistic and I doubt Colin would have been attracted to such a woman. Such MAY have formed part of JB's resentment. She was given it without ever asking for it, ergo, she must have been their favourite child.

I, too, liked Colin. There was an authenticity about him which I enjoyed. He never tried to change to fit with the Bambers.

It's funny Jane to be honest. If I recall correctly in either wilkes book or CAL,( think the latter ) she provides a source of Shelia saying that she thought " Jeremy was Nevills Favoruite" believe it was by Inez Brown
« Last Edit: June 21, 2024, 10:15:AM by ILB »
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Online ILB

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1693 on: June 21, 2024, 10:19:AM »

I don't think Sheila was in any way materialistic and I doubt Colin would have been attracted to such a woman. Such MAY have formed part of JB's resentment. She was given it without ever asking for it, ergo, she must have been their favourite child.

I, too, liked Colin. There was an authenticity about him which I enjoyed. He never tried to change to fit with the Bambers.

Yes Colin spoke highly of Nevill in the book, he was less fond of June. I like how Nevill made Colin feel welcome and that he was down to earth despite the statue of the man.

I think Colin did not like the fact that in the early stages of the relationship things were bankrolled by Nevill. I think Colin felt a little embarrassed. Totally normal reaction, but at the same time he knew he had no choice ( financial wise )
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Online ILB

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Re: Barbara De"ath discussing sea wall
« Reply #1694 on: June 21, 2024, 10:25:AM »
Thats a good point Steve and one I am familiar with, I worked with my Dad in the mines and he was in charge, he treat me as one of his men at work and I accepted it and it couldn’t be no other way.  I had to take orders just the same as the other men.

Just my recollection, I worked for my grandad in the 80s, ( who was like a dad to me we were very close) I did get a lot of leeway compared to other employees. I think there's usually it's either " same as everybody else, or " preferential treatment "

Many companies I've worked at in the past, especially family orientated ones ( brothers uncles etc, it's very unlikely you will get any type of advancement.
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