Robert Spencer: The Palestinian Delusion

[ngb1066]

   The myth of making the desert bloom is just that, Steve, a myth. They stole Palestinian farms and turned them into Kibbutz. All of this is known. Israel is funded massively by the US/West. It is a western colony. Of course it is a modern state. Many of the surrounding states, those not bombed by the Zionists and their western enablers, are also modern. Jews living in the region are not the problem and weren't for most of those 3500 years. It is European/Ashkenazi Zionist Jews with their supremacist colonising mentality who are the issue. Those Jews from the region didn't spend their time attempting to ethnically cleanse and genocide everyone else. Only since the colonialist genociders arrived has this happened.

That is a very succinct and accurate summary of the position.  I knew a Jewish man who as a young boy escaped the pogroms in Ukraine and went initially to Canada where he qualified as a lawyer.  He was the son of a rabbi and initially was sympathetic to Zionism. He went to a kibbutz in Palestine in the 1930s.  He was horrified by what he experienced there and turned against Zionism, moving to the UK.  He turned to socialism and fought in Spain and then joined the British army in WW2. He had a distinguished war record.  He was fluent in Hebrew and Yiddish and was culturally Jewish, but was principled in his support of the rights of the Palestinian people.  I knew many Jews who had the same attitude and there are many who share those views now.

   

[Steve_uk]

That is a very succinct and accurate summary of the position.  I knew a Jewish man who as a young boy escaped the pogroms in Ukraine and went initially to Canada where he qualified as a lawyer.  He was the son of a rabbi and initially was sympathetic to Zionism. He went to a kibbutz in Palestine in the 1930s.  He was horrified by what he experienced there and turned against Zionism, moving to the UK.  He turned to socialism and fought in Spain and then joined the British army in WW2. He had a distinguished war record.  He was fluent in Hebrew and Yiddish and was culturally Jewish, but was principled in his support of the rights of the Palestinian people.  I knew many Jews who had the same attitude and there are many who share those views now.

 

But you've proved my point really. The Ashkenazi Jews were never accepted on equal terms in Europe for centuries. In some territories they were made to wear the yellow star long before Nazi Germany introduced the Nuremberg Laws. As for Palestinian land, this was never recognized in any law. If you start a war you run the risk of losing territory, which is what occurred.

[ngb1066]

But you've proved my point really. The Ashkenazi Jews were never accepted on equal terms in Europe for centuries. In some territories they were made to wear the yellow star long before Nazi Germany introduced the Nuremberg Laws. As for Palestinian land, this was never recognized in any law. If you start a war you run the risk of losing territory, which is what occurred.

I cannot see how I have proved your point in any way.

[Steve_uk]

I cannot see how I have proved your point in any way.

Your friend was unable to lead a normal life in Ukraine. I have anecdotal stories of Polish Jews being stoned on the way to the synagogue in the 1930s. I have Jewish friends and acquaintances in the Manchester area. They have been traumatised by events since October. You brush this trauma aside. The mass immigration we have had since the Blair years has not helped.

[ngb1066]

Your friend was unable to lead a normal life in Ukraine. I have anecdotal stories of Polish Jews being stoned on the way to the synagogue in the 1930s. I have Jewish friends and acquaintances in the Manchester area. They have been traumatised by events since October. You brush this trauma aside. The mass immigration we have had since the Blair years has not helped.

His family were unable to lead a normal life in Ukraine because of the appalling antisemitism that prevailed there before Soviet times.  Why do you think Jews supported the Communist Party in Britain so strongly in the 1930s?  Progressive Jews remain in the forefront of opposition to Zionist atrocities in the UK and in Israel.

The fact that you now mention immigration since the Blair years gives a clue about your outlook.   
 

[Steve_uk]

His family were unable to lead a normal life in Ukraine because of the appalling antisemitism that prevailed there before Soviet times.  Why do you think Jews supported the Communist Party in Britain so strongly in the 1930s?  Progressive Jews remain in the forefront of opposition to Zionist atrocities in the UK and in Israel.

The fact that you now mention immigration since the Blair years gives a clue about your outlook.   

Antisemitism has been endemic in Europe for centuries. Look at the Dreyfus Affair. I'm quite sure there were Jews in the Israeli state who wanted to give Palestinians rights. But their number is surely on the wane after October 7, as will be support for the two-state solution.