Israel-Born from terror 1948- Died of terror 202?

[Steve_uk]

Do you back a ceasefire in Ukraine by any chance? Do you back democracy at all..https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/navalny-missing-prison-putin-election-b2461373.html

[gringo]

I never said it wasn't popular. I don't know whether it was popular on not. It being a frivolous abstraction prior to ww2 is simply my own view. You can agree or disagree.

The fact of the matter is, after the Balfour agreement and the British mandate there was no Zionist state for 31 years. There was however a Zionist state just three years the Holocaust ended. Its rather obvious what event caused its inception.

     You ignore a lot of history in that statement. The Balfour Agreement, interestingly made with bankers whilst Palestine was still part of the Ottoman Empire, was clearly the opening gambit, as it were, of a much longer game David. The Nakba was a gradual building catastrophe as shown by any timeline. Israel was sold to western publics as, "a land without people, for a people without land" . This was a lie and it was used, we now know, to cover up an ongoing(at that time) ethnic cleansing and genocide.
      All wars are bankers wars, David. Those same bankers who obtained the Balfour Agreement from the UK foreign secretary in 1917 promising Palestine as a homeland for Jews also, coincidentally got their way after the bankers war known as WW2.   

[gringo]

You put that very well gringo.

    It is difficult, ngb, to have any respect whatsoever for anyone who supports Israel with events unfolding as they are. The beyond comprehension atrocities of Israel have awoken an unprecedented, in my memory, outpouring of solidarity and humanitarianism amongst the vast majority of world humanity. Those still supporting this need to question why it is that the world stands against them and rediscover their basic humanity. There is no both sides equally to blame stance anymore, if there ever was.
     There is just humanity against evil now. It is unbelievable that we are watching this happening whilst our government, and opposition? , side with evil.

[Roch]

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/cypriot-opposition-demand-answers-use-raf-bases-supply-israels-war

[ngb1066]

    It is difficult, ngb, to have any respect whatsoever for anyone who supports Israel with events unfolding as they are. The beyond comprehension atrocities of Israel have awoken an unprecedented, in my memory, outpouring of solidarity and humanitarianism amongst the vast majority of world humanity. Those still supporting this need to question why it is that the world stands against them and rediscover their basic humanity. There is no both sides equally to blame stance anymore, if there ever was.
     There is just humanity against evil now. It is unbelievable that we are watching this happening whilst our government, and opposition? , side with evil.

I agree entirely.  I think that has been a fundamental change in the attitude towards Israel of people and governments throughout the world.  The UK and US are now complete outliers, propping up a criminal regime.  Whatever happens in my view this is not going to end well for Israel.  Unfortunately I fear that ordinary Israeli citizens will also suffer greatly as a result of their government's barbarity.

 

[Steve_uk]

Barely two months after the Israeli equivalent of USA's 9/11 and the vilification has begun.

Coincidentally I watched this video last night: https://youtu.be/Sqhaju79y5I

[Roch]

Barely two months after the Israeli equivalent of USA's 9/11 and the vilification has begun.

Coincidentally I watched this video last night: https://youtu.be/Sqhaju79y5I

What is an equivalent of a 9/11 though?  A huge number of people have grave doubts about the official story of 9/11.  Making that comparison hardly gives much credence to October 7th official version of events.  And who framed it as Israel's 9/11.. the Israelis?

[David1819]

     You ignore a lot of history in that statement. The Balfour Agreement, interestingly made with bankers whilst Palestine was still part of the Ottoman Empire, was clearly the opening gambit, as it were, of a much longer game David. The Nakba was a gradual building catastrophe as shown by any timeline. Israel was sold to western publics as, "a land without people, for a people without land" . This was a lie and it was used, we now know, to cover up an ongoing(at that time) ethnic cleansing and genocide.
      All wars are bankers wars, David. Those same bankers who obtained the Balfour Agreement from the UK foreign secretary in 1917 promising Palestine as a homeland for Jews also, coincidentally got their way after the bankers war known as WW2.

Jewish migration to the area was few and far between from 1917 till 1933. Thus proving my previous point. It gradually increased through out the early 1930s and reached its peak in from 1945 till 1947.

To say they all "coincidentally" moved there during the era of the Third Reich is ludicrous. They all just happened to go there "coincidentally" during and after the most traumatic period for Jews in European history? It never crossed their minds? They just decided to move there because 30 years prior the Balfour declaration was made?

Your sir are a moron. So hellbent on blaming your own country for everything you don't ever think things through.

[gringo]

What is an equivalent of a 9/11 though?  A huge number of people have grave doubts about the official story of 9/11.  Making that comparison hardly gives much credence to October 7th official version of events.  And who framed it as Israel's 9/11.. the Israelis?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1734194636040683909

     The comparisons with 9/11 that stand out to most people are;
1) Mossad knew about both before they happened
2) Both events were used as cover to launch previously planned aggressions against helpless civilian populations
3) The "official" version of events is full of provable falsehoods in both cases

     I'm sure there are more. The difference this time is that in the initial aftermath of 9/11, the majority of people believed the "official story" which gave cover to the atrocities that were already planned anyway. This time, in the age of mass communication, barely anyone believes the Israel/US/UK mass deception and instead of rallying the "international community" to their "cause", the opposite has happened. The UK/US/Israel are international pariahs and thoroughly isolated.
     The video above with the video testimony of another Israeli survivor of the slaughter by the IDF on 7th October tells the same story as all other survivors. The IDF, not Hamas, killed hundreds of Israelis on October 7th with tank shells and Hellfire missiles and everyone knows.
     The comparisons with 9/11, as you note, do not lend credence to the "official version". This cannot end well for Israel and political Zionism is certain to acquire the same status as Nazism.
     

[gringo]

Jewish migration to the area was few and far between from 1917 till 1933. Thus proving my previous point. It gradually increased through out the early 1930s and reached its peak in from 1945 till 1947.

To say they all "coincidentally" moved there during the era of the Third Reich is ludicrous. They all just happened to go there "coincidentally" during and after the most traumatic period for Jews in European history? It never crossed their minds? They just decided to move there because 30 years prior the Balfour declaration was made?

Your sir are a moron. So hellbent on blaming your own country for everything you don't ever think things through.

     David, it is not an arguable point that the "Balfour Agreement" was a greater catalyst for the state of Israel than the events of WW2. Why were Jews migrating to Palestine, do you think, rather than elsewhere? You pretend to not know that Zionism had no popular support amongst the wider Jewish diaspora despite calling it a frivolous abstraction.
     There is no Israel without Balfour, Baron Walter Rothschild and powerful banking interests. Why were these people already conniving to set up a "Jewish homeland" on land that the UK government didn't yet control? Jewish migration and Zionist terrorism started in the period after this when the area became "British mandated Palestine" after WW1. The Haavara agreement, that either you or someone else mentioned previously in this thread, is also an illuminating part of this history.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/reviews/capsule-review/1984-06-01/transfer-agreement-untold-story-secret-pact-between-third-reich

      You treat history as a series of unconnected events and ignore any events that interfere with your approved "narrative". Extremely powerful interests secured the "Balfour Agreement" in very murky circumstances. To pretend that this is peripheral/irrelevant in the creation of Israel, as you do, demonstrates that your understanding of historical narratives is child-like.
     You should ask more questions about all of these events if you want to have real insight. Who drafted the Balfour Agreement? Why? How? Why were powerful financial interests the instigators of this? How did powerful financial interests "convince" the UK government to agree to this? What was the quid pro quo? A year before WW1 officially ended and Palestine was still part of the Ottoman Empire. Who was funding and arming the zionist terror groups in Palestine, do you think?
     To claim that the above is irrelevant doesn't show me to be a moron, David.   

[David1819]

     David, it is not an arguable point that the "Balfour Agreement" was a greater catalyst for the state of Israel than the events of WW2.

Yes it is. The stats do not lie

https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/immigrationchart.jpeg?w=770&resize=770%2C433&quality=80

Why were Jews migrating to Palestine, do you think, rather than elsewhere?

If you were a Jew living in Europe with the spectre of This Guy occupying the whole continent from the UK to the Ural mountains, where would you go?

If you were a Jew living in Europe who experienced and/or survived the above and no longer felt safe being an ethnic minority. Where would you go?

I shouldn't even have to ask this.

[gringo]

Yes it is. The stats do not lie

https://www.aljazeera.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/immigrationchart.jpeg?w=770&resize=770%2C433&quality=80


If you were a Jew living in Europe with the spectre of This Guy occupying the whole continent from the UK to the Ural mountains, where would you go?

If you were a Jew living in Europe who experienced and/or survived the above and no longer felt safe being an ethnic minority. Where would you go?

I shouldn't even have to ask this.

    Prints stats that prove my point  You miss the point, anyway, David. The importance of "Balfour" is that everything that happens after flows from that. Why did Jews start migrating to Palestine, if not because of the "Balfour Agreement"? Who was supporting and funding the early Jewish terror groups? Without "Balfour" there can be no Israel. Without WW2, there would still have eventually been an Israel. The Balfour Agreement would have been fulfilled because powerful interests wanted it. WW2 was what they eventually exploited but the ongoing migration and terror groups were already working towards that aim and had been for decades. Anyway, back to your stats;

    The first thing to notice is that the immigration stats start immediately that the British take over the "mandate of Palestine". Or, in other words, immediately after the Balfour Agreement. An interesting spike around 1933 that lasted for several years(Haavara Agreement?). Of the 376,000 Jewish migrants who arrived in Palestine between 1920 and 1946, the vast majority arrived (est. 350,000) arrived prior to WW2.
     How does this prove that WW2 was was a greater catalyst than Balfour? You fail to understand the historical significance of the Balfour Agreement and show yourself to be ignorant.

[gringo]

https://twitter.com/Resist_05/status/1740908444838952986

    Powerful and moving speech by the Palestinian Representative at the UN. The Israeli rep airily and ignorantly taps away on his mobile phone, unmoved and not listening.

[ngb1066]

https://twitter.com/Resist_05/status/1740908444838952986

    Powerful and moving speech by the Palestinian Representative at the UN. The Israeli rep airily and ignorantly taps away on his mobile phone, unmoved and not listening.

I agree, this was a very powerful speech delivered in a dignified way.  The Israeli representative was a complete disgrace, unfortunately behaving as we have come to expect from mouthpieces of that criminal state.
 

[gringo]

I agree, this was a very powerful speech delivered in a dignified way.  The Israeli representative was a complete disgrace, unfortunately behaving as we have come to expect from mouthpieces of that criminal state.
 

    The contrast between the two reps tells you all you need to know. You can see who has truth and a just cause to fight for. It is why the Palestinians are destined to achieve justice. They are resilient and willing to die for their cause. Since the start of the current escalation over half a million Israelis have emigrated. The occupied north is evacuated because of the Hezbollah threat. Zionists are willing only to kill, not die. I expect that a new front will open soon on the occupied Golan Heights from Syria.