Ballistics manipulation

[Roch]

Feel free to discuss BuboBubo's thread post.

Have fun.

OK, I will have a go at your questions myself.

[Zoso]

I start with an apology to Zoso for a convoluted post and to Adam who will be more confused than he already is.

PV25 & PV26 and the Magic PV20

Essex Police had their own photographic unit which serviced cameras, performed X-rays, issued and developed films etc. etc. A senior member of staff was Fred Carter and it was he that took the X-rays. He would have worked with SOCO photographers like DB

We see from the documents that these two bullets (PV25, PV26) changed into one bullet and some fragments. They had to swap PV25 because it did not come from any firearm at WHF.

To achieve this, they took one of the 30 rounds on the kitchen top which is why MF only received 29. The cartridge casing was used to replace the original TFG case and was found by DRH on the 9th August by the wardrobe saying it had been missed, (DRH43). MF received two bullets for PV25 and PV26 not a bullet and fragments, as described by PV.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4019.0;attach=29500;image

Please note his remarks about how he could not say it was fired from the Anschutz.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4019.0;attach=29505;image

Other anomalies from the autopsy.

The X-rays were ordered before autopsy. At autopsy PV found two stud earrings but the X-ray seen by MF states only one in his examination. All of Sheila’s other jewellery is listed with the exception of her Pendant and chain, where did it go?

Reasons to think x-ray might be a fake.

1 The necklace/choker was missing from the autopsy notes unlike the earrings, rings and watch and could be used to fabricate a fake, since the victim cannot be readily identified unless there are distinguishing features such as fillings.

2 The x-ray was a recent acquisition (last 13/14 years). If the defence had not had previous sight of this, whomever sent/produced it might have thought it alone would help Jeremy’s case.

3 The introduction of a fragmented bullet would afford a number of advantages to the police.

(a)   It could be used to cover for a larger calibre round had one been used
.
(b)   It could be used to cover for a round fired from another weapon of the same calibre but with different rifling marks.

(c)   it could be used to insinuate that Sheila was ambulant for any storyline devised to cover any mistakes, when they were pursuing four murders and a suicide and body relocation was an issue.

(d)   It could be used to enhance the argument that Jeremy failed at his first attempt and was reluctantly forced to stage a two shot suicide.

(e)   It could be used to introduce a rogue fragment.

X-ray discussion

The number of fragments is noted by Fletcher on the GER. It is generally accepted that there are 3 large and around 14/15 smaller fragments. Some argue that some of these may be bone fragments. It is likely that PV viewed the x-ray on a light box to assist him at autopsy.

He makes no mention of bone fragments in the autopsy, the follow up report and trial testimony. He only mentions bullet fragmentation in the follow up report. His preoccupation as one would expect is concerned with anatomical damage.

It seems unlikely if bones had been fragmented he would not have reported this. He had three opportunities. He states fractures and lack of displacement only.

A problem with the x-ray is that it does not give a three dimensional view of the fragments and it is therefore difficult to assess each of the fragments in relation to the PV20 photo which itself is not three dimensional. I am not a ballistics expert but find it difficult to associate this with any of the three larger fragments, which given its relative size, are the only ones that are candidates.

The best way to view the fragments for shape is to use the image on the Bamber website and enlarge

The PV20 bullet was first sent to Taylor for examination of blood issues. (see GER) He passed it to MF stating lans and grooves were visible. Notice also that the bag contained blood and tissue which may represent yet another potential blood source for the silencer contamination which was undertaken.

Proving the swap

[/size]
A short thread. Note MT's remarks.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10645.msg492394.html#msg492394

No one can say what happened at WHF after Jeremy left but before the police entered. The Police may have been able to work out roughly what happened from the original crime scene they viewed.

There is no proof that June was shot in bed. I can prove she was not but that can be explained later if you wish.

There is no proof that Sheila killed them all in one go. Or for that matter that June was not hiding with or without some wounds. There is also a possibility of a Mexican standoff .

I believe the original scenario which they planned involved a restaging and included the shooting of Sheila by June in some manner. For this it required Sheila to be shot with two different weapons. They shot her in the neck after she had committed suicide calling it the first shot.

The fragmentation they constructed provided her with the ability to then go on and kill June because she (Sheila) had only been stunned. If it was known by any of those involved that June was alive either through telephone contact or if in response to the loud hailer, she then presented herself to be viewed. In such circumstances it would be essential to outline how she had died. The ‘met with no response’ record may have been in relation to a request to go to the phone.

I believe the Fragmentation X-ray may have been faked. They used Sheila’s necklace quite possibly on June  or a n other superimposing the fragments. Did June have pierced ears?

I believe PV20 did lose some of its volume when hitting the bone but not to the extent displayed. The change to the parts list for PV20 is denoted by the carriage/tab return. The words ‘in cervical muscles’ has been added indicating some measure of fragmentation with the use of the plural.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=988.0;attach=4969;image

This has to have been inserted because other wordy descriptions show carriage/tab returns and additional/more lines of text.

When the case changed to five murders they had to move to a one gun crime. They could not let it be known that there was more than 1 rifle available and JB would not change guns mid event. This meant that they would need to go back to the slightly damaged bullet, the original PV20. However, this had lans and grooves associated with a weapon other than the Anschutz. It would have to be swapped.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10671.msg493051.html#msg493051

From this proposition/scenario we see that Vanezis did not take part in the framing of Jeremy but he was aware of what had happened. He knew. He trod a fine line and chose his words and descriptions with care.

The Samples list and Autopsy report were tweaked to hide a shot by the TFG (PV25 autopsy notes) and disguise a wound to create a different scenario (PV20 Samples list).

They forgot to change 'front of head' on the Samples list Both PV and MF say that the shot between the eyes was retrieved from the front of the head but the actual autopsy notes say it travelled through the brain and ended up with some fragments as the left side base of the skull.

He was forced to elaborate on Sheila’s abilities after the introduced first shot. Initially he said she could have survived the Fragmented PV20 for about 30 minutes but when JB was charged this changed and he ruled out any meaningful activity.

These two documents (autopsy report and samples list) represent what they needed for the first case which should have been three murders, a suicide and an accidental shooting. Not 4 murders and a suicide). He did try to appear on JB’s side up to a point using some helpful comments like the ‘nutter’ remark. May be he had a guilty conscience or he wanted to distance himself from the police actions.

PV20 was damaged but was never as fragmented as shown on the x-ray. It did not become whole it was never that fragmented.

If Jeremy obtains justice, sooner or later there would have to be an enquiry, may be more than one. PV’s role in events would in all probability be exposed. Not only would it cast a shadow over UK cases he was involved with but he also had a role in the Autopsy of Princess Dianna, pronouncing she was not pregnant. Perhaps more importantly he was seconded from the Home office and played a lead role in the exhumations of mass graves in the former Yugoslavia.

Any damage or undermining of his credibility would have widespread ramifications not only for the UK justice system but also for International relations and our standing in the world.

To Summarise.

In the first instance they tried to cover up the TFG shooting of June by pretending SC had a survivable wound that would allow her having been shot by June only  to recover and then kill June. They created a false Xray and administered a so called first shot to a dead SC with AP's Brno rifle. They also restaged SC's and June's bodies.

Later when JB was framed they had to swap PV20 back to  the replacement round created by them to create a casing for the TFG shot and substitute a test fired round from MF's cache of test fired ammunition (the 29 he received) to disguise the shot between June's eyes by claiming it had fragmented when Travelling through her head. But MF's records show That PV25 and PV26 were both nearly whole

Well, I read it, all I can say is 'stunned'.

[Adam]

OK, I will have a go at your questions myself.

In your own time.

[Roch]

In your own time.

I'll get on it when I can. Don't know whether I'm coming or going at the moment.

[David1819]

I'll get on it when I can. Don't know whether I'm coming or going at the moment.

I'm still not sure what substance Bubo was under the influence of when he started this thread.

[Bubo bubo]

I'm still not sure what substance Bubo was under the influence of when he started this thread.

Do not start that issue again. Do not get into your denigration mode. I do not drink or smoke. I was drinking tea as it happens. Continue with this and I will report you to the moderators as I did the last time you started implying stuff. Go back to the UFO thread. Please delete this post.

[Steve_uk]

Do not start that issue again. Do not get into your denigration mode. I do not drink or smoke. I was drinking tea as it happens. Continue with this and I will report you to the moderators as I did the last time you started implying stuff. Go back to the UFO thread. Please delete this post.

From memory Mike Tesko always argued they replaced a fragmented bullet with a whole one, but why fake the X-rays and at what date was this accomplished?

[Roch]

David please desist from this type of posting. Thank you.

[Adam]

From memory Mike Tesko always argued they replaced a fragmented bullet with a whole one, but why fake the X-rays and at what date was this accomplished?

Pulling out a bullet and putting a new one in.

Only Mike and BuboBubo.

[Adam]

Believe BuboBubo is saying the same with June. As says the police shot an alive June holding the rifle upon entrance.

Has not said how many times June was shot by the police. Must be several if she was alive and considered a threat.

Maybe Roch will say when he answers my questions.

[Bubo bubo]

From memory Mike Tesko always argued they replaced a fragmented bullet with a whole one, but why fake the X-rays and at what date was this accomplished?

I can only assume that he did not think the Xray was a fake. PV does not say it fragmented to the extent that is shown. Please remember that this was probably produced in the early stages when they were looking to get past the coroner and inquest and would not be required for JB's trial. It is clear from the GER and examination by Taylor (see post) that it was a substantial size and not in at least 3 large pieces as per the Xray. Also note that in the thread Mike T agrees with my findings.

[Zoso]

I can only assume that he did not think the Xray was a fake. PV does not say it fragmented to the extent that is shown. Please remember that this was probably produced in the early stages when they were looking to get past the coroner and inquest and would not be required for JB's trial. It is clear from the GER and examination by Taylor (see post) that it was a substantial size and not in at least 3 large pieces as per the Xray. Also note that in the thread Mike T agrees with my findings.

Don't you mean you agree with Mike's findings? You do realise that that isn't an endorsement right?

[Bubo bubo]

From memory Mike Tesko always argued they replaced a fragmented bullet with a whole one, but why fake the X-rays and at what date was this accomplished?

They were trying to cover up the shooting of June. If as I suspect SC had already committed suicide and was dead on her own bed and and June had no or just a few injuries. The crime scene would  look a bit out of kilter. What is more they would not know that the pathologist would help them with the cover-up at say 08.00am since none had been called.
The TOD would also be a factor. If the pathologist recorded a big difference between the TOD of the two women it would be even more problematic.

There may also have been information that June was alive but as we know they started a new case file and the original has never been disclosed.

From the magical PV20 and the Xray and other known facts it is possible to hypothesise how these factors fit together.

I think the initial plan (cover-up) was to say that June had shot SC with AP's Brno during some event (say a struggle over possession) SC is wounded but not dead because the bullet fragmented giving her the opportunity to recover herself sufficiently to kill June. Restage the bodies, PV is sympathetic to the accident and tailors his initial comments to facilitate this scenario.

To bolster this argument they fake an Xray showing a highly fragmented bullet.

This is then sent to the CT some years later because whoever sent it was trying sublimely to help JB

[Bubo bubo]

Don't you mean you agree with Mike's findings? You do realise that that isn't an endorsement right?

Perhaps I should have said in general terms but our thinking has differences.

Mikes post.
Thank you, very much - your contribution further solidifies the view that I hold, the crime scene bullet (pv/20), was switched/substituted, in order to try and hide from the fact, that the original bullet (pv/20) was not only a different type/kind of a. 22 bullet used in the shootings, but also that the original 'PV/20' was fired via a 2nd,. 22 rifle...

[Bubo bubo]

I should also point out that I had come to this on my own account before I read MT's views. I was communicating with a journalist in my early investigations and have the documentation. Mike had not produced any scientific evidence to prove the swap.