Author Topic: The window Jeremy used for entry  (Read 41127 times)

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Offline Zoso

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #585 on: July 24, 2023, 06:54:PM »
That's a better response than before.

Well, it's more comprehensive but the same outcome  ;D

Offline Zoso

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #586 on: July 24, 2023, 06:56:PM »
Seem to remember her saying a sickly smell but could be wrong.

I suspect that was partially due to five people having been murdered there, the cleaning fluid smells and in part psychology.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #587 on: July 24, 2023, 06:57:PM »

Such doesn't sound suggestive of those items you claim may have been burnt. I'm sure I don't need to spell it out.
I do not know how those items would smell but burnt plastic can be a bit sickly. I wish I could find the exact quote but there is so much AE stuff even without the various books which are sometimes quoted. In the end we have the physical remains collected irrespective of how they might have smelled.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 06:58:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline Zoso

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #588 on: July 24, 2023, 07:24:PM »
The Aga was used to burn materials used in the cover-up (see DB2) I have posted extensively about this. The items they burned were not what the Aga was designed to take. It would have got very hot. They had to remove the remnants from the ash box but NB was in the way so they moved him to gain access.
Sorry these images are so small but they can be found on RED under John Haywoods specimen testing list. I have posted larger versions on here if you can find them.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=260.0;attach=849;image
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=260.0;attach=851;image

You will see that even that material which was still identifiable are just what might be expected if moving blood stained corpses and protecting against clothing contamination and burnt hands.
All the items used in the cover-up where retrieved by the photographer David Bird (DB1 - DB7) and not the real SOCO team so they could be out of sight of any main stream enquiry.

Bird had two statements on his finds both made and dated as the same day. The one we have merely identifies the blue socks whereas the one used for the COLP enquiry contains all his finds.

The blue socks had to be found and recorded by someone because of their prominence in the crime scene photos and would therefore draw some attention. They were also a distraction to take attention from the Toilet mat placed under SC.

It is possible that the piece of rifle seen in the photos was also used to distract from the fact that the rug by the Aga had been reversed.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=7295;image

Can't see the attachments, they are too small

Offline Adam

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #589 on: July 24, 2023, 07:38:PM »
Burnt plastic. That would take some heavy duty scissors to cut.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #590 on: July 24, 2023, 08:58:PM »
Can't see the attachments, they are too small
Have full size copy in word but having trouble getting it onto site. Post method please. You can view them on the red forum as stated.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #591 on: July 24, 2023, 09:11:PM »
Have full size copy in word but having trouble getting it onto site. Post method please. You can view them on the red forum as stated.
Have found this from previous post. Hope you appreciate the effort.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10639.0;attach=57511;image
https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10639.0;attach=57512;image

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #592 on: July 24, 2023, 09:38:PM »
The Aga was used to burn materials used in the cover-up (see DB2) I have posted extensively about this. The items they burned were not what the Aga was designed to take. It would have got very hot. They had to remove the remnants from the ash box but NB was in the way so they moved him to gain access.
Sorry these images are so small but they can be found on RED under John Haywoods specimen testing list. I have posted larger versions on here if you can find them.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=260.0;attach=849;image
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=260.0;attach=851;image

You will see that even that material which was still identifiable are just what might be expected if moving blood stained corpses and protecting against clothing contamination and burnt hands.
All the items used in the cover-up where retrieved by the photographer David Bird (DB1 - DB7) and not the real SOCO team so they could be out of sight of any main stream enquiry.

Bird had two statements on his finds both made and dated as the same day. The one we have merely identifies the blue socks whereas the one used for the COLP enquiry contains all his finds.

The blue socks had to be found and recorded by someone because of their prominence in the crime scene photos and would therefore draw some attention. They were also a distraction to take attention from the Toilet mat placed under SC.

It is possible that the piece of rifle seen in the photos was also used to distract from the fact that the rug by the Aga had been reversed.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=7295;image
I don't understand the connection between the burning of items in the AGA and the blue socks. What exactly is the Raid Team burning, what is there to cover up and why are the blue socks left on the master bedroom floor?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 09:39:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline Adam

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #593 on: July 24, 2023, 09:44:PM »
I am still trying to find out how and why June's body was staged.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #594 on: July 24, 2023, 10:35:PM »
I don't understand the connection between the burning of items in the AGA and the blue socks. What exactly is the Raid Team burning, what is there to cover up and why are the blue socks left on the master bedroom floor?
One more time. The blue socks appear in crime scene photos. It is likely that the defence would check these out as an exhibit and who found them. DB found these so he claims in his statement dated 24/10/85. He claims he retrieved them from the main bedroom. He claims to have retrieved them on 12/09/85 after he returned from holiday. This is almost impossible since the carpets and bedding were burnt by the police on the Wednesday I believe and JB burnt his parents clothes the following weekend. Also by that time AE had taken control of WHF and was setting about refurbishing/tidying things. It is inconceivable that the socks were still in situ on this date some 30 days after the event.
The socks were numbered DB6.

In another statement of the same date which he presented to the COLP enquiry his statement contains all his finds DB1 - DB7. Why make two different statements on the same day with different contents.

DB1 was the SM which by the time of the COLP enquiry had been changed to a soil sample but this hiding was shown by the fact that he had squeezed it into his pocket book so it could be his first find but he had already made an entry for a soil sample some days later. He seems to have recorded it twice.
EP were trying to hide the fact that the police did find a SM on the day. This was stated by ACC Simpson and recorded in the press at that time. The police needed to switch AP's SM for JB's so had to 'disappear' the original find.

DB2 was fire debris which was also found on the day before the blue socks along with other items including DB7 tampons which could not have still been in SC's bedroom.

The fire debris when analysed turns out to be the very sort of items that would be needed and used to move blood stained bodies and manipulate crime scenes.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 10:41:PM by Bubo bubo »

Offline snow66!

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #595 on: July 24, 2023, 10:51:PM »
One more time. The blue socks appear in crime scene photos. It is likely that the defence would check these out as an exhibit and who found them. DB found these so he claims in his statement dated 24/10/85. He claims he retrieved them from the main bedroom. He claims to have retrieved them on 12/09/85 after he returned from holiday. This is almost impossible since the carpets and bedding were burnt by the police on the Wednesday I believe and JB burnt his parents clothes the following weekend. Also by that time AE had taken control of WHF and was setting about refurbishing/tidying things. It is inconceivable that the socks were still in situ on this date some 30 days after the event.
The socks were numbered DB6.

In another statement of the same date which he presented to the COLP enquiry his statement contains all his finds DB1 - DB7. Why make two different statements on the same day with different contents.

DB1 was the SM which by the time of the COLP enquiry had been changed to a soil sample but this hiding was shown by the fact that he had squeezed it into his pocket book so it could be his first find but he had already made an entry for a soil sample some days later. He seems to have recorded it twice.
EP were trying to hide the fact that the police did find a SM on the day. This was stated by ACC Simpson and recorded in the press at that time. The police needed to switch AP's SM for JB's so had to 'disappear' the original find.

DB2 was fire debris which was also found on the day before the blue socks along with other items including DB7 tampons which could not have still been in SC's bedroom.

The fire debris when analysed turns out to be the very sort of items that would be needed and used to move blood stained bodies and manipulate crime scenes.
I think I see now Bubo. David Bird was unaware of Nevills body being moved so inadvertently took the fire remains from the Aga as exhibits?  He retrieved a silencer also on 7th Aug,but later on when he was taken in to the loop the silencer find was swapped and the fire debris made to look like it was taken from the outside fire? Something like that? Not sure why the socks were not taken on 7th Aug as the police new they would be in the crime scene photos?

Offline Zoso

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #596 on: July 24, 2023, 11:57:PM »
Have full size copy in word but having trouble getting it onto site. Post method please. You can view them on the red forum as stated.

OK - no problem

Offline Zoso

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Offline Zoso

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #598 on: July 25, 2023, 12:15:AM »
I think I see now Bubo. David Bird was unaware of Nevills body being moved so inadvertently took the fire remains from the Aga as exhibits?  He retrieved a silencer also on 7th Aug,but later on when he was taken in to the loop the silencer find was swapped and the fire debris made to look like it was taken from the outside fire? Something like that? Not sure why the socks were not taken on 7th Aug as the police new they would be in the crime scene photos?

This is why the whole AGA scenario doesn't work, the whole theory has to get more and more convoluted to try and make it work.

Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #599 on: July 25, 2023, 12:19:AM »
This is why the whole AGA scenario doesn't work, the whole theory has to get more and more convoluted to try and make it work.
Not convoluted if you have a brain and can see through the deceit.