Author Topic: The window Jeremy used for entry  (Read 41123 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17586
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #570 on: July 24, 2023, 01:18:PM »
For starters, he clearly states that the Aga was on FULL heat for his experiment. In the reality of the case, why would it be? Early hours of the morning in mid summer? Also, distance apart seems to work but the larger burn has a part in the centre that isn't burned. The handle of the Aga that he suggests may have caused it, has a rounded surface, which means the centre part of the handle would be in contact with the skin and there would be no unburned centre. Also, why hasn't he shown the pig skin that he used? That would have shown if the marks were caused by the AGA because they should be the same shape/size etc.

You're also saying to not look at the AGA theory and the theory that the police moved Nevill - together, but that's he whole premise. You can't look at one without the other - there has to be a reason why he'd be laying against the AGA one minute, then moved to another location. This actually points more to Jeremy. Sheila could never move him in a month of Sunday's and the police would have NO REASON.

Like I said, none starter for me.

That's a better response than before.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44411
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #571 on: July 24, 2023, 01:51:PM »

Sorry Adam. Thought you were addressing BB. The outside of the warming oven doesn't get hot enough to burn, but neither is it cold to the touch. Being propped against its flat surface wouldn't be comfortable for long. The smaller -9 inches of flat surface from hinge to opening- 'cupboard' does get hot. I have to point out that the handle -2.5 inches north to south- is the only one which stands proud. All other hinges and handles -on the other opening parts and 15 inches in length - are flush/integral. None appear close enough, one to another, to create the three marks on Nevill's back.

I wonder if anyone has thought to contact AGA?

Thank you. All sounds very optimistic from the CT. Which is not surprising as it has been 38 years.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #572 on: July 24, 2023, 02:23:PM »
This is what Rayburn -AGA's little sister- has to say:-

They are generally much safer than conventional cookers. Their covers ensure they are well insulated leaving no parts exposed which could cause injury. The body of the cooker is hot to the touch, but the surface areas aren't hot enough to cause injury, although they do act as a warning. The internal heat is much higher and care must be taken.

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3357
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #573 on: July 24, 2023, 02:56:PM »
For starters, he clearly states that the Aga was on FULL heat for his experiment. In the reality of the case, why would it be? Early hours of the morning in mid summer? Also, distance apart seems to work but the larger burn has a part in the centre that isn't burned. The handle of the Aga that he suggests may have caused it, has a rounded surface, which means the centre part of the handle would be in contact with the skin and there would be no unburned centre. Also, why hasn't he shown the pig skin that he used? That would have shown if the marks were caused by the AGA because they should be the same shape/size etc.

You're also saying to not look at the AGA theory and the theory that the police moved Nevill - together, but that's he whole premise. You can't look at one without the other - there has to be a reason why he'd be laying against the AGA one minute, then moved to another location. This actually points more to Jeremy. Sheila could never move him in a month of Sunday's and the police would have NO REASON.

Like I said, none starter for me.

The Aga was used to burn materials used in the cover-up (see DB2) I have posted extensively about this. The items they burned were not what the Aga was designed to take. It would have got very hot. They had to remove the remnants from the ash box but NB was in the way so they moved him to gain access.
Sorry these images are so small but they can be found on RED under John Haywoods specimen testing list. I have posted larger versions on here if you can find them.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=260.0;attach=849;image
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=260.0;attach=851;image

You will see that even that material which was still identifiable are just what might be expected if moving blood stained corpses and protecting against clothing contamination and burnt hands.
All the items used in the cover-up where retrieved by the photographer David Bird (DB1 - DB7) and not the real SOCO team so they could be out of sight of any main stream enquiry.

Bird had two statements on his finds both made and dated as the same day. The one we have merely identifies the blue socks whereas the one used for the COLP enquiry contains all his finds.

The blue socks had to be found and recorded by someone because of their prominence in the crime scene photos and would therefore draw some attention. They were also a distraction to take attention from the Toilet mat placed under SC.

It is possible that the piece of rifle seen in the photos was also used to distract from the fact that the rug by the Aga had been reversed.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=887.0;attach=7295;image
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 03:21:PM by Bubo bubo »

Online Rob_

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4830
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #574 on: July 24, 2023, 03:58:PM »

Sorry Adam. Thought you were addressing BB. The outside of the warming oven doesn't get hot enough to burn, but neither is it cold to the touch. Being propped against its flat surface wouldn't be comfortable for long. The smaller -9 inches of flat surface from hinge to opening- 'cupboard' does get hot. I have to point out that the handle -2.5 inches north to south- is the only one which stands proud. All other hinges and handles -on the other opening parts and 15 inches in length - are flush/integral. None appear close enough, one to another, to create the three marks on Nevill's back.

I wonder if anyone has thought to contact AGA?

Two people I asked with Aga's both said they can get quite hot to touch, especially if there is a problem with the insulation.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44411
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #575 on: July 24, 2023, 04:17:PM »
Seems the police were busy prior to the photographer arriving.

Moving items, moving bodies, swapping rugs, burning items, putting Nevill's pyjama top on.

Taff must have been outside.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #576 on: July 24, 2023, 04:25:PM »
Two people I asked with Aga's both said they can get quite hot to touch, especially if there is a problem with the insulation.


That's reasonable. Most things malfunction if they're not properly maintained. Ours is serviced every year. There's no reason to think the Bambers' wasn't.

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3357
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #577 on: July 24, 2023, 04:34:PM »

That's reasonable. Most things malfunction if they're not properly maintained. Ours is serviced every year. There's no reason to think the Bambers' wasn't.
Have you tried burning overcoats, blankets, plastic Macintoshes, slip on shoes and scarfs for example?

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #578 on: July 24, 2023, 04:46:PM »
Have you tried burning overcoats, blankets, plastic Macintoshes, slip on shoes and scarfs for example?


Firstly, I've never tried! Secondly, I'm willing to bet it would be almost impossible to get some of those items through the aperture. Lastly, I imagine that doing so would knacker it for good..............however, ours is getting on for 100, has endured several moves, and is still going strong.

It has also just occurred to me that, whilst the objects cooking in that part of the AGA designed for the purpose!! don't give off any indication of being done or burnt, I imagine items placed directly onto the burning parts, would. They would also take a very long time to burn.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 04:55:PM by Jane »

Offline Roch

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17586
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #579 on: July 24, 2023, 05:08:PM »

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3357
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #580 on: July 24, 2023, 05:55:PM »

Firstly, I've never tried! Secondly, I'm willing to bet it would be almost impossible to get some of those items through the aperture. Lastly, I imagine that doing so would knacker it for good..............however, ours is getting on for 100, has endured several moves, and is still going strong.

It has also just occurred to me that, whilst the objects cooking in that part of the AGA designed for the purpose!! don't give off any indication of being done or burnt, I imagine items placed directly onto the burning parts, would. They would also take a very long time to burn.
Not if you fed them in in pieces and opened the windows to get rid of the smell. AE comments about 'funny smells' when she first entered WHF.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44411
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #581 on: July 24, 2023, 06:21:PM »
The police cut things up before burning them. Wow they were determined.

What brought all this on? Doubt anyone inside WHF had even spoken to Bamber.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2023, 06:24:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #582 on: July 24, 2023, 06:23:PM »
Not if you fed them in in pieces and opened the windows to get rid of the smell. AE comments about 'funny smells' when she first entered WHF.


Did she say what she thought the "funny smells" were?

Offline Bubo bubo

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3357
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #583 on: July 24, 2023, 06:26:PM »

Did she say what she thought the "funny smells" were?
Seem to remember her saying a sickly smell but could be wrong.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33781
Re: The window Jeremy used for entry
« Reply #584 on: July 24, 2023, 06:39:PM »
Seem to remember her saying a sickly smell but could be wrong.


Such doesn't sound suggestive of those items you claim may have been burnt. I'm sure I don't need to spell it out.