Author Topic: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85  (Read 5964 times)

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Hartley

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Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« on: July 26, 2011, 03:11:PM »
Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85

Offline Alias

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2011, 03:21:PM »
Such sad documents to read.

Offline smiffy

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2011, 07:08:PM »
He clearly states one entry wound to Sheila's throat.

Odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds...so was he due to fear or favour telling a whopping great lie to pass off a murder as suicide on someone behalf in this statement.

ah another thing...he describes Sheila's right hand as lying loosely over the butt of the rifle.
check out the pictures of Sheila...
her right hand is nowhere near the butt of the rifle in the pictures available..
surely the butt is the wooden end of the rifle ...

so he describes something very different from what we see in the pictures...so the pictures are once again questioned as being staged .

tyler

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2011, 12:27:AM »
Smiffy,I noticed that,about the one wound.This isnt the only time that we have read about only the one wound in statements either is it.

Offline smiffy

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2011, 09:50:AM »
I can understand the doctor not spotting or reporting every gunshot wound to say Ralph or June...as many many not have been readily viewable..so fair enough...

If Sheila had been lying on her back and had been shot in the back...so a wound was out of sight...then I can understand him not reporting a wound like that.

However as Sheila had two entry wounds that were only a few inches apart then even a casual observation of one would reveal the other ..it could not be missed so cannot be passed off as an error or mistake.
But however this is only the case if Sheila was viewed as photographed where the front of the neck and underside of the jaw area is properly visible.

It may be the case though that if Sheila's head was carefully positioned by a police officer or an item, such as part of the necklace, was carefully positioned to cover one of the entry wounds then in a casual look by the doctor he may have missed one entry wound. To do this would be an act of deliverate concealment that was meant to mislead..
for this to be accepted then Sheila has to have been moved into a different position for the photographs which firmly puts the staging of the body as being an act carried out by the police.
 

Offline grahameb

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2011, 09:45:AM »
A very sad document to read indeed. Brings one back to the enormity of the tragedy that occurred that night. Very upsetting. If Jeremy was guilty of that crime then I would certainly agree with him being locked up until dead. But there are serious doubts in my mind as to the original trial and if he is indeed innocent of this crime then there not only is there this tragedy to consider. But also of the injustice of the imprisonment of an innocent man for half his adult life. I recall the words of one of the relatives after the last appeal. He said, "Nobody has won". And he was right.

Jackiepreece

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2011, 10:05:AM »
Grahame
From everything we read I do believe even if everything is released we will never get to the bottom of the full extent of the police corruption in this case I think there will be vital evidence that will have long gone one way or another but as for David Boutflours statement we are all losers here particularly sticks in my throat because I can't see any other explanation for the silencer that was magically found in the cupboard putting the relatives clearly in the frame for setting up an innocent man to spend 26 years in prison because of their own greed

Offline grahameb

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2011, 10:09:AM »
Grahame
From everything we read I do believe even if everything is released we will never get to the bottom of the full extent of the police corruption in this case I think there will be vital evidence that will have long gone one way or another but as for David Boutflours statement we are all losers here particularly sticks in my throat because I can't see any other explanation for the silencer that was magically found in the cupboard putting the relatives clearly in the frame for setting up an innocent man to spend 26 years in prison because of their own greed
Yes, there does seem to be some winners doesn't there.

Offline Enigma

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2011, 12:40:PM »
He clearly states one entry wound to Sheila's throat.

Odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds...so was he due to fear or favour telling a whopping great lie to pass off a murder as suicide on someone behalf in this statement.

ah another thing...he describes Sheila's right hand as lying loosely over the butt of the rifle.
check out the pictures of Sheila...
her right hand is nowhere near the butt of the rifle in the pictures available..
surely the butt is the wooden end of the rifle ...

so he describes something very different from what we see in the pictures...so the pictures are once again questioned as being staged .

I don't understand what you are saying Smiffy.
Yes the doctor certified Sheila dead and noted an entry wound .... implying one wound.
I have no idea why he didn't say two wounds but I don't understand your comment : Odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds...so was he due to fear or favour telling a whopping great lie to pass off a murder as suicide on someone behalf in this statement.

It is odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds I agree, but why does mentioning one wound instead of 2 constitute a possible lie to help it look like a murder instead of a suicide? Surely one wound looks more like suicide than two!

I am not being sarcastic; I just don't understand what you're saying?
 

Offline grahameb

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2011, 12:44:PM »
He clearly states one entry wound to Sheila's throat.

Odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds...so was he due to fear or favour telling a whopping great lie to pass off a murder as suicide on someone behalf in this statement.

ah another thing...he describes Sheila's right hand as lying loosely over the butt of the rifle.
check out the pictures of Sheila...
her right hand is nowhere near the butt of the rifle in the pictures available..
surely the butt is the wooden end of the rifle ...

so he describes something very different from what we see in the pictures...so the pictures are once again questioned as being staged .

I don't understand what you are saying Smiffy.
Yes the doctor certified Sheila dead and noted an entry wound .... implying one wound.
I have no idea why he didn't say two wounds but I don't understand your comment : Odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds...so was he due to fear or favour telling a whopping great lie to pass off a murder as suicide on someone behalf in this statement.

It is odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds I agree, but why does mentioning one wound instead of 2 constitute a possible lie to help it look like a murder instead of a suicide? Surely one wound looks more like suicide than two!

I am not being sarcastic; I just don't understand what you're saying?
I think it was probably just a simple matter of a mistake?

Offline smiffy

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2011, 12:47:PM »
He clearly states one entry wound to Sheila's throat.

Odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds...so was he due to fear or favour telling a whopping great lie to pass off a murder as suicide on someone behalf in this statement.

ah another thing...he describes Sheila's right hand as lying loosely over the butt of the rifle.
check out the pictures of Sheila...
her right hand is nowhere near the butt of the rifle in the pictures available..
surely the butt is the wooden end of the rifle ...

so he describes something very different from what we see in the pictures...so the pictures are once again questioned as being staged .

I don't understand what you are saying Smiffy.
Yes the doctor certified Sheila dead and noted an entry wound .... implying one wound.
I have no idea why he didn't say two wounds but I don't understand your comment : Odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds...so was he due to fear or favour telling a whopping great lie to pass off a murder as suicide on someone behalf in this statement.

It is odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds I agree, but why does mentioning one wound instead of 2 constitute a possible lie to help it look like a murder instead of a suicide? Surely one wound looks more like suicide than two!

I am not being sarcastic; I just don't understand what you're saying?


Depending on the nature of the wounds...
one wound only appears more credible for suicide than two wounds... it is not definitive but it is more unusual for suicide by gunshots to have more than one wound.

as both wounds were so close together it is most strange not to mention both.

MVV7

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2011, 12:50:PM »
It seems to me that Dr. Craig only talks about one wound on every one of them.

Maybe he is only certifying the death, not trying to be exhaustive, and leaves the complete description of the wounds to the post-mortem examination.

Offline Enigma

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2011, 12:57:PM »
He clearly states one entry wound to Sheila's throat.

Odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds...so was he due to fear or favour telling a whopping great lie to pass off a murder as suicide on someone behalf in this statement.

ah another thing...he describes Sheila's right hand as lying loosely over the butt of the rifle.
check out the pictures of Sheila...
her right hand is nowhere near the butt of the rifle in the pictures available..
surely the butt is the wooden end of the rifle ...

so he describes something very different from what we see in the pictures...so the pictures are once again questioned as being staged .

I don't understand what you are saying Smiffy.
Yes the doctor certified Sheila dead and noted an entry wound .... implying one wound.
I have no idea why he didn't say two wounds but I don't understand your comment : Odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds...so was he due to fear or favour telling a whopping great lie to pass off a murder as suicide on someone behalf in this statement.

It is odd that this later becomes 2 entry wounds I agree, but why does mentioning one wound instead of 2 constitute a possible lie to help it look like a murder instead of a suicide? Surely one wound looks more like suicide than two!

I am not being sarcastic; I just don't understand what you're saying?


Depending on the nature of the wounds...
one wound only appears more credible for suicide than two wounds... it is not definitive but it is more unusual for suicide by gunshots to have more than one wound.

as both wounds were so close together it is most strange not to mention both.

I think he just read the scene as it looked; saw all the dead bodies, saw Sheila with the rifle on her body, expected only one suicide wound and without a close study assumed it was one wound.
I can quite imagine even a professional doctor not wanting to stare too closely at all those wounds. 

Offline smiffy

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2011, 01:02:PM »
expected only one wound due to the rifle on the body.

hmm .If he was only bothered about mentioning one wound on each and they were all dead then the rifle has no need to be mentioned.

Offline smiffy

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Re: Statement by Ian Donaldson Craig dated 07/08/85
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2011, 10:52:AM »
ah

lets think  2 others I know of also only speak of a "wound" (singular to the throat in statements)...that is Miller and Gibbons.

ah any more...
there is of course JM...
In her statement of 8th september she allegedly says JB was told by his hitman various details of the crime....by phone... from whf.....
in this scenario she gives Sheila as being forced to lie on the bed by the hitman and shooting herself under the chin...(single wound) and then the hitman places a bible on her chest...she attributes all of this to have come from JB after the hitman told him this...hmmm

She seems to forget she was told about the body on the bed and the bible on the chest by Anne Eaton on the 7th or so of August and Anne claims it was a police officer Mick Clarke who told her these things.