Author Topic: The case of James Hanratty  (Read 28302 times)

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Offline ngb1066

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2023, 09:38:PM »
NGB1066 has stated he believed this a miscarriage of justice until the DNA evidence emerged. After I read Peter Wright's 1987 book Spycatcher I wouldn't put anything past the secret services. I wondered whether MI5 had broken into the laboratory containing the DNA samples.

I do not like having to doubt the conviction of a murdering rapist to quote NGB1066s words. The case is not a straightforward one Cambridgecutie. For example on the first identity parade Valerie Storie failed to pick Hanratty out. That's just one of the incidences which raises doubt in my mind.

In addition Peter Alphon confessed to the crime more than once.  When it was investigated however it became clear that Alphon was not the culprit.  At the final appeal Mike Mansfield conceded that Alphon could not have been responsible.

I do think there may have been more to this than ever came out.  I think Alphon may have been connected in some way and there may have been more to Hanratty's involvement than a chance encounter.  There were theories about this advanced but I have always thought it was difficult to discuss them when Michael Gregston's widow was still alive.  Paul Foot always rejected those theories even though they might have assisted Hanratty.


Offline ngb1066

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2023, 09:40:PM »
Witnesses are very unreliable because the police often put them under extreme pressure!

Yes I agree.  Also, honest witnesses can feel certain but be completely wrong.

 

Offline Rob_

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2023, 09:41:PM »
Well it's only tonight that I accept that if Alphon's DNA wasn't present on the knickers or handkerchief it's almost impossible to explain, unless the exhibits were washed and then DNA of Hanratty added. I'm still uncomfortable with the case for several reasons.

DNA (from semen) can still be extracted even after washing I believe?

Offline ILB

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2023, 09:43:PM »
It's interesting to note that before shooting gregsten the murderer spent a lot of time in their company. Despite taking the little the money he had. He didn't seem to be in a rush. And actually engaged in much dialogue with both storie and gregsten.

A man in a business suit in the middle of the field encountering a couple down a lovers lane? It seems such a scripted thing.

Having said that Valerie storie was adamant in her identification of Hanratty. As was John skillet who picked Hanratty as the man driving the motor car erractically on the morning after the murder.

Hanratty didn't do himself any further justice by changing his albi from being Liverpool to Rhyl North Wales midway through his trial.

Little in his background to suggest a crime of such magnitude though. Despite being a crook he was known to treat women and girls well

« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 09:46:PM by ILB »
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Offline ngb1066

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2023, 09:44:PM »
If members want to discuss the Hanratty case, which is a very interesting one, I could split these posts out into a new thread under the Other High Profile Cases board. 

Offline killingeve

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2023, 09:46:PM »
Which is why she picked out an innocent man when Peter Alphon was put in a line up  :o

According to Storie, the couple were abducted at gunpoint in their car at Dorney Reach, Buckinghamshire, by a man with a Cockney accent and mannerisms matching Hanratty's. The gunman ordered Gregsten to drive in several directions, before stopping beside the A6 at Deadman's Hill, where the offences took place. The initial prime suspects were Hanratty, a petty criminal, and Peter Louis Alphon, an eccentric drifter. In police line-ups, Storie did not recognise Alphon, but eventually identified Hanratty.

Offline ILB

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2023, 09:47:PM »
Believe Hanratty had dyed his hair bright orange whilst on the run from investigation. He looked like a carrot
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Offline Rob_

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2023, 09:47:PM »
According to Storie, the couple were abducted at gunpoint in their car at Dorney Reach, Buckinghamshire, by a man with a Cockney accent and mannerisms matching Hanratty's. The gunman ordered Gregsten to drive in several directions, before stopping beside the A6 at Deadman's Hill, where the offences took place. The initial prime suspects were Hanratty, a petty criminal, and Peter Louis Alphon, an eccentric drifter. In police line-ups, Storie did not recognise Alphon, but eventually identified Hanratty.

In the original line up with Alphon in it she picked out a totally innocent man Cc.

Offline killingeve

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2023, 09:56:PM »
In the original line up with Alphon in it she picked out a totally innocent man Cc.

24 mins in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y_7KiYI0q8&t=22s

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2023, 09:57:PM »
DNA (from semen) can still be extracted even after washing I believe?
I don't know Rob. This evidence was years after the event. All I will say is it was convenient for the Establishment that the son of an Irish immigrant binman's conviction was sustained and the ex-public schoolboy was exonerated.

Offline Rob_

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2023, 10:03:PM »
24 mins in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y_7KiYI0q8&t=22s

Thanks Cc yes I know, but in the original line up why does she pick out a totally innocent man?

Offline David1819

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2023, 10:03:PM »
In addition Peter Alphon confessed to the crime more than once.  When it was investigated however it became clear that Alphon was not the culprit.  At the final appeal Mike Mansfield conceded that Alphon could not have been responsible.

I do think there may have been more to this than ever came out.  I think Alphon may have been connected in some way and there may have been more to Hanratty's involvement than a chance encounter.  There were theories about this advanced but I have always thought it was difficult to discuss them when Michael Gregston's widow was still alive.  Paul Foot always rejected those theories even though they might have assisted Hanratty.

If I remember correctly, wasn't Peter Alphon found to be an eccentric serial fabricator who would make things up just for attention?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2023, 10:04:PM »
It's interesting to note that before shooting gregsten the murderer spent a lot of time in their company. Despite taking the little the money he had. He didn't seem to be in a rush. And actually engaged in much dialogue with both storie and gregsten.

A man in a business suit in the middle of the field encountering a couple down a lovers lane? It seems such a scripted thing.

Having said that Valerie storie was adamant in her identification of Hanratty. As was John skillet who picked Hanratty as the man driving the motor car erractically on the morning after the murder.

Hanratty didn't do himself any further justice by changing his albi from being Liverpool to Rhyl North Wales midway through his trial.

Little in his background to suggest a crime of such magnitude though. Despite being a crook he was known to treat women and girls well
There wasn't a satisfactory motive for Hanratty to be the killer. He was a jewel and car thief, not a rapist and murderer. If I remember correctly Paul Foot speaks of witnesses who saw Alphon in the Old Station Inn days before the crime, which lovers Michael Gregsten and Valerie Storie used to frequent. In the book it suggests Alphon was paid by a third party to break up the affair, which does seem a more plausible scenario to my mind.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2023, 10:05:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline David1819

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2023, 10:09:PM »
In the original line up with Alphon in it she picked out a totally innocent man Cc.

Penny Beerntsen was attacked and raped by a stranger in 1985. She picked out Steven Avery and identified him to the Jury. In 2005 DNA proved Avery innocent and implicated Gregory Allen.

Offline Rob_

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Re: The case of James Hanratty
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2023, 10:25:PM »
Penny Beerntsen was attacked and raped by a stranger in 1985. She picked out Steven Avery and identified him to the Jury. In 2005 DNA proved Avery innocent and implicated Gregory Allen.

In a lot of these types of misidentification it is the police that are to blame, in one case in the US a witness was hounded for days by the police and eventually went from "maybe" or "I think" to "yes I am certain" at trial.