Author Topic: The Lucy Letby trial  (Read 40794 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #660 on: July 29, 2025, 12:15:PM »
the proscution delbratly misslead the ury and disbareble offfence https://youtu.be/-s4lCmdszd8
From what I'm aware the "virtually red-handed" remark was made about the death of Baby K: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jun/12/lucy-letby-convictions-constitute-significant-evidence-prosecutors-say

Letby had told lies previously: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-65854106

Of course, the case is a circumstantial one. She is not stupid enough to dislodge tubes in the presence of someone else, though easy enough to do when working a nightshift. No CCTV, which should surely be corrected as a result of this case.

The alternative explanation for the murder of seven babies and the attempted murder of seven others is coincidence or bad luck. This is despite the trophies she kept of the deaths, such as paper towels with her handwriting containing the medication given to Child M found under her bed, along with  257 handover sheets found in her bedroom, 21 of which included names of babies she was deemed to have harmed. Don't forget also the green sticky notes in her own handwriting, which many would regard tantamount to a confession.

I don't know whether she meant deliberately to cause death on what were undoubtedly already sick babies when they came into her care. Maybe she just wanted the attention of senior male staff in the hope of being recognized as the heroine of the hour, if or when they were resuscitated.

Following the guilty verdict she was described as "beige" by law enforcement. The German-American historian and philosopher Hannah Arendt put it better during the Eichmann trial of 1961 in Jerusalem, calling the phenomenon she witnessed as "the banality of evil."

One is always looking for some neat and pat explanation for diablerie, but sometimes the explanation is quite ordinary. She killed to alleviate the boredom of a nightshift,  to garner approbation from male colleagues higher up the career chain, or maybe she's just a mentally ill individual.

I hope she enjoys her card game with Beinash Batool at HMP Bronzefield. At taxpayers' expense, of course. https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/lucy-letby-becomes-pals-sara-30590266

 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2025, 05:00:PM by Steve_uk »


Offline nugnug

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #662 on: August 06, 2025, 07:45:PM »
from blackbelt barrister https://youtu.be/1lZ5r5cnT38

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #663 on: August 07, 2025, 07:29:AM »
The experts pile in on the Lucy Letby case: https://youtu.be/UohWz9L6PTs

Offline JackieD

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #664 on: August 07, 2025, 04:22:PM »
Steve you need help, god help us if you are ever called for jury service
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #665 on: August 07, 2025, 04:53:PM »
Steve you need help, god help us if you are ever called for jury service
I'd like to see the experts challenged and their word not be taken as gospel.

Offline nugnug

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #666 on: August 08, 2025, 02:54:PM »
I'd like to see the experts challenged and their word not be taken as gospel.

well the only way the canbe challged is at a retrial

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #667 on: August 08, 2025, 03:06:PM »
well the only way the canbe challged is at a retrial
I wouldn't argue with that.

Offline JackieD

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #668 on: August 10, 2025, 01:34:AM »
Lucy Letby: Beyond Reasonable Doubt? review – one of the most meticulous documentaries in years
The science and statistics around Letby’s case are brilliantly unpacked by this considered programme. By its end, you are filled with questions
Lucy Mangan
Lucy Mangan
Sun 3 Aug 2025 23.30 BST
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When three times more babies than expected die on a neonatal ward and one nurse is on duty during those deaths, it’s got to be pretty much an open-and-shut case, hasn’t it? Especially when breathing tubes have been clearly deliberately dislodged by someone from their tiny bodies and blood tests show spikes in insulin that can only be explained by the stuff being injected. And if you find someone who has written notes to herself about her guilt, then the way forward is clear. Lock the perpetrator up. Throw away the key.

Such was the initial and still persisting narrative in the case of Lucy Letby, the neonatal nurse at the Countess of Chester hospital in Cheshire who became, in tabloid parlance, “Britain’s worst child serial killer”, when she was convicted in 2023 of seven murders and seven attempted murders of the infants in her care.

Since then, there has been growing disquiet about the quality of the evidence against her and the reliability of her conviction. Lucy Letby: Beyond Reasonable Doubt sets itself the formidable task of forcing passion and sentiment aside and unpacking the science and statistics around the most contended pieces of evidence so that, perhaps, facts – buried, missed, distorted or otherwise – can be examined by a newly informed mass audience.

In its marshalling and explanation of complicated medical and mathematical issues, it succeeds brilliantly, covering more ground more meticulously in an hour than any documentary I’ve seen in recent years, and perhaps ever. It also – and this is possibly an even greater and more precious rarity – trusts its audience emotionally. It acknowledges but does not linger on the terrible suffering of the bereaved parents. If you cannot see that we all appreciate that it was and remains fathomless, the makers’ message seems to be that the fault lies with you and we will carry on with our stated objective meantime. It’s a confidence that I wish all documentaries could show.

Via a proliferating army of world experts on an array of issues brought up by the case, the alternative narrative is carefully put together. First there are questions asked and answered. Why was there a spike in mortality rates around the time Letby arrived? It is argued that she arrived at a time when the hospital was suddenly required to take in much sicker babies than it had before, babies it was hardly equipped to cope with. How do we explain that Letby was on duty every time a baby died or collapsed? The claim is made that she wasn’t – that the infamous shift chart that the prosecution used did not explain how its data was compiled and in fact showed only the fatalities and deteriorations during which she was present. If you compile a chart showing the proportion of all those that occurred on the ward during her period of employment, the correlation – and damnation – disappears.

What, then, of the dislodged tubes? As a witness for the prosecution, paediatric doctor Ravi Jayaram asserted that infants that age could not dislodge them themselves. This is simply not true, say experts including Dr Richard Taylor, a specialist in neonatal care with 30 years’ experience. “We’ve all seen it.” We hear that, on the stand, Dr Jayaram also stated that he saw Letby standing by doing nothing and raising no alarm as one baby’s oxygen levels dropped dangerously. However, we’re told that an email he wrote, which has been discovered since, suggests that he was present precisely because she had called him.

On we are taken, step by step, through alternative explanations for the insulin results, the Post-it notes on which Letby apparently confessed her guilt, and the rest of the circumstantial evidence amassed by the prosecution. Just one witness was called in Letby’s defence at trial – a hospital plumber, to testify to sewage issues and therefore possible hygiene problems on the ward. We also hear that the prosecution’s main witness, Dr Dewi Evans, has since changed his mind on how one of the babies Letby was convicted of killing died. And we are invited to consider how all of this should be weighted against Letby’s apparent lack of motive and, more implicitly, the extreme rarity of young, female serial killers of children.

The makers do not dwell on why Letby’s team put forward such a minimal defence, though I’m sure further and broader analyses will come in time, probably encompassing such factors as the trust we place in ministering angels and the fury we feel when it appears to have been betrayed, as well as the general public’s relative ignorance of science and how to compute data. But, by the end of this considered, brilliantly cogent hour you cannot help but feel that at the very least Letby’s conviction is unsafe. The final scenes are of her (new) lawyer Mark McDonald delivering an application to have her case re-examined to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. But this can only be granted if new evidence has come to light – and, technically, everything he has submitted was available to her original defence at the time. The question of what constitutes justice continues.
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #669 on: August 10, 2025, 05:29:PM »
Lucy Letby: Beyond Reasonable Doubt? review – one of the most meticulous documentaries in years
The science and statistics around Letby’s case are brilliantly unpacked by this considered programme. By its end, you are filled with questions
Lucy Mangan
Lucy Mangan
Sun 3 Aug 2025 23.30 BST
Share
When three times more babies than expected die on a neonatal ward and one nurse is on duty during those deaths, it’s got to be pretty much an open-and-shut case, hasn’t it? Especially when breathing tubes have been clearly deliberately dislodged by someone from their tiny bodies and blood tests show spikes in insulin that can only be explained by the stuff being injected. And if you find someone who has written notes to herself about her guilt, then the way forward is clear. Lock the perpetrator up. Throw away the key.

Such was the initial and still persisting narrative in the case of Lucy Letby, the neonatal nurse at the Countess of Chester hospital in Cheshire who became, in tabloid parlance, “Britain’s worst child serial killer”, when she was convicted in 2023 of seven murders and seven attempted murders of the infants in her care.

Since then, there has been growing disquiet about the quality of the evidence against her and the reliability of her conviction. Lucy Letby: Beyond Reasonable Doubt sets itself the formidable task of forcing passion and sentiment aside and unpacking the science and statistics around the most contended pieces of evidence so that, perhaps, facts – buried, missed, distorted or otherwise – can be examined by a newly informed mass audience.

In its marshalling and explanation of complicated medical and mathematical issues, it succeeds brilliantly, covering more ground more meticulously in an hour than any documentary I’ve seen in recent years, and perhaps ever. It also – and this is possibly an even greater and more precious rarity – trusts its audience emotionally. It acknowledges but does not linger on the terrible suffering of the bereaved parents. If you cannot see that we all appreciate that it was and remains fathomless, the makers’ message seems to be that the fault lies with you and we will carry on with our stated objective meantime. It’s a confidence that I wish all documentaries could show.

Via a proliferating army of world experts on an array of issues brought up by the case, the alternative narrative is carefully put together. First there are questions asked and answered. Why was there a spike in mortality rates around the time Letby arrived? It is argued that she arrived at a time when the hospital was suddenly required to take in much sicker babies than it had before, babies it was hardly equipped to cope with. How do we explain that Letby was on duty every time a baby died or collapsed? The claim is made that she wasn’t – that the infamous shift chart that the prosecution used did not explain how its data was compiled and in fact showed only the fatalities and deteriorations during which she was present. If you compile a chart showing the proportion of all those that occurred on the ward during her period of employment, the correlation – and damnation – disappears.

What, then, of the dislodged tubes? As a witness for the prosecution, paediatric doctor Ravi Jayaram asserted that infants that age could not dislodge them themselves. This is simply not true, say experts including Dr Richard Taylor, a specialist in neonatal care with 30 years’ experience. “We’ve all seen it.” We hear that, on the stand, Dr Jayaram also stated that he saw Letby standing by doing nothing and raising no alarm as one baby’s oxygen levels dropped dangerously. However, we’re told that an email he wrote, which has been discovered since, suggests that he was present precisely because she had called him.

On we are taken, step by step, through alternative explanations for the insulin results, the Post-it notes on which Letby apparently confessed her guilt, and the rest of the circumstantial evidence amassed by the prosecution. Just one witness was called in Letby’s defence at trial – a hospital plumber, to testify to sewage issues and therefore possible hygiene problems on the ward. We also hear that the prosecution’s main witness, Dr Dewi Evans, has since changed his mind on how one of the babies Letby was convicted of killing died. And we are invited to consider how all of this should be weighted against Letby’s apparent lack of motive and, more implicitly, the extreme rarity of young, female serial killers of children.

The makers do not dwell on why Letby’s team put forward such a minimal defence
, though I’m sure further and broader analyses will come in time, probably encompassing such factors as the trust we place in ministering angels and the fury we feel when it appears to have been betrayed, as well as the general public’s relative ignorance of science and how to compute data. But, by the end of this considered, brilliantly cogent hour you cannot help but feel that at the very least Letby’s conviction is unsafe. The final scenes are of her (new) lawyer Mark McDonald delivering an application to have her case re-examined to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. But this can only be granted if new evidence has come to light – and, technically, everything he has submitted was available to her original defence at the time. The question of what constitutes justice continues.
One has to jump through hoops to declare the conviction is unsafe. How a retrial can be granted without fresh evidence maybe NGB1066 can tell us.

One wonders why the programme did not mention the poor defence counsel at trial. Maybe they could have interviewed some of her original legal team to redress the balance of the programme.

There was a spike in mortality rates at the Countess of Chester hospital because Lucy Letby, a mentally ill indivudual, was tampering with apparatus essential for their survival. She may not have wished to kill them, just have a consultant come running to her so she could bask in the glory of being the heroine of the hour.

The programme interviewed experts in their field unconnected with the British NHS. There are several others who do work there with grave concerns about Letby, but who have chosen to remain anonymous, fearful of the impact should they be named.

In June 2016 she flew out to Ibiza with two friends, just hours after she had attempted to murder Baby N. In a message, as her holiday came to an end, she joked she would be "back with a bang."

For seven days whilst she was in Ibiza there were no incidents in the neonatal ward. Within 72 hours of Letby's message two baby triplet brothers were dead.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2025, 03:00:AM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #670 on: August 11, 2025, 10:41:PM »
Dr. Dewi Evans speaks: https://youtu.be/MlH3hR4dL_E

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #671 on: August 12, 2025, 10:13:PM »

Offline nugnug

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #672 on: August 17, 2025, 11:27:AM »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #673 on: August 17, 2025, 05:09:PM »
panorama debate https://youtu.be/wsWTZP3vzM4
It doesn't make much difference. There were still far more detachments of breathing apparatus whilst Letby was on duty than with any other nurse.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: The Lucy Letby trial
« Reply #674 on: October 19, 2025, 05:59:PM »