Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.

[Roch]

Somewhat of a contrast!?

Given what is on it, I doubt it would have ever been turned in to a diagram. The sketch probably survived by chance, because its significance was overlooked, within the mountains of paperwork held on the case.

Alternatively, there may have been a diagram made as a result of the sketch. That diagram went the journey. But the sketch survived.

[killingeve]

Some reports I have read implied there was a lot of blood in the silencer Cc so it was just the flake? I knew it was cut into five portions but thanks.

Here's a ref to a "considerable amount of blood" from the 2002 appeal. 

453. We have set out at paragraphs 75 to 80 a summary of the evidence at trial relating to the scientific examination of the moderator. The critical part of that evidence was the analysis of the flake of dried blood found inside the sound moderator. The evidence was given by Mr Hayward, a biologist who was working at the Forensic Science Laboratory at the time of the examination although he was in private practice by the date of trial. In his evidence he described how he had found "a considerable amount of blood" inside the moderator deposited in the spaces to the sides of the baffles around the edge of the silencer. He was asked if he had tested "any" of that blood. He said that he had and that it was human blood. He said that he had obtained grouping reactions for group A, EAP BA, AK I, Hp 2-1. He had done a PGM grouping test but it gave negative results. He said that these grouping results were consistent with the blood coming from Sheila Caffell but not solely from any of the others who had been shot.

[killingeve]

Given what is on it, I doubt it would have ever been turned in to a diagram. The sketch probably survived by chance, because its significance was overlooked, within the mountains of paperwork held on the case.

Alternatively, there may have been a diagram made as a result of the sketch. That diagram went the journey. But the sketch survived.

I don't know Roch but I do know that the blood stains on the rifle are clearly depicted with precise measurements for the size of the various stains. 

[Rob_]

Here's a ref to a "considerable amount of blood" from the 2002 appeal. 

453. We have set out at paragraphs 75 to 80 a summary of the evidence at trial relating to the scientific examination of the moderator. The critical part of that evidence was the analysis of the flake of dried blood found inside the sound moderator. The evidence was given by Mr Hayward, a biologist who was working at the Forensic Science Laboratory at the time of the examination although he was in private practice by the date of trial. In his evidence he described how he had found "a considerable amount of blood" inside the moderator deposited in the spaces to the sides of the baffles around the edge of the silencer. He was asked if he had tested "any" of that blood. He said that he had and that it was human blood. He said that he had obtained grouping reactions for group A, EAP BA, AK I, Hp 2-1. He had done a PGM grouping test but it gave negative results. He said that these grouping results were consistent with the blood coming from Sheila Caffell but not solely from any of the others who had been shot.

Yes I have read this Cc but as far as I can see only one set of grouping tests were carried out there should have been two tests otherwise the test is regarded as invalid?

[Jane]

Yes I have read this Cc but as far as I can see only one set of grouping tests were carried out there should have been two tests otherwise the test is regarded as invalid?

Surely testing was carried out commensurate with a murder/suicide crime, which is what it was claimed to have been at the time the tests were done. I'm not certain what the difference would be between back splatter caused by the suicide's hand, and back splatter caused by the murder's hand. Is it believed that different testing is required for each?

[Adam]

Here's a ref to a "considerable amount of blood" from the 2002 appeal. 

453. We have set out at paragraphs 75 to 80 a summary of the evidence at trial relating to the scientific examination of the moderator. The critical part of that evidence was the analysis of the flake of dried blood found inside the sound moderator. The evidence was given by Mr Hayward, a biologist who was working at the Forensic Science Laboratory at the time of the examination although he was in private practice by the date of trial. In his evidence he described how he had found "a considerable amount of blood" inside the moderator deposited in the spaces to the sides of the baffles around the edge of the silencer. He was asked if he had tested "any" of that blood. He said that he had and that it was human blood. He said that he had obtained grouping reactions for group A, EAP BA, AK I, Hp 2-1. He had done a PGM grouping test but it gave negative results. He said that these grouping results were consistent with the blood coming from Sheila Caffell but not solely from any of the others who had been shot.[/i]

Obviously the back spatter theory is the only credible & watertight one.

The evidence being Sheila received 2 shots in an area of high blood flow. One a contact, one a 'within 3 inches' shot.

[Adam]

Lookout's theory that Sheila took the silencer off mid massacre & her blood dripped in was impossible. Sheila was not bleeding mid massacre.

The relatives putting the wrong type of diluted blood into the silencer is impossible.

Although obtaining a mountain of other evidence, Snow66! suggests the police fabricated the silencer & told the relatives to check the gun cupboard.

[Adam]

Rob says the experts are wrong and it is not Sheila's blood.

He agrees with everyone else & does not believe it is DB's blood.

He has not said whose blood it was which matched 17 out of 20 markings to Sheila & how it was inserted.

[Adam]

Rob obviously agrees with everyone else that the guilters explanation - back spatter,  is watertight.

He has to produce an alternative watertight theory.

[Rob_]

Surely testing was carried out commensurate with a murder/suicide crime, which is what it was claimed to have been at the time the tests were done. I'm not certain what the difference would be between back splatter caused by the suicide's hand, and back splatter caused by the murder's hand. Is it believed that different testing is required for each?

Nothing to do with back spatter Jane, I thought two sets of groupings were required to get a reliable result? Just what I have read I don't set the standards.

To my knowledge only one was done I assume because of the small size of the flake of blood, but then you read there was a lot of blood in the silencer?

[Rob_]

Lookout's theory that Sheila took the silencer off mid massacre & her blood dripped in was impossible. Sheila was not bleeding mid massacre.

The relatives putting the wrong type of diluted blood into the silencer is impossible.

Although obtaining a mountain of other evidence, Snow66! suggests the police fabricated the silencer & told the relatives to check the gun cupboard.

Again you keep saying diluted Adam? please explain.

[Adam]

Again you keep saying diluted Adam? please explain.

Period blood in a bucket of water.

[Rob_]

Rob says the experts are wrong and it is not Sheila's blood.

He agrees with everyone else & does not believe it is DB's blood.

He has not said whose blood it was which matched 17 out of 20 markings to Sheila & how it was inserted.

I don't say anyone is wrong but after spending a long time researching this case I am entitled to my opinion Adam, just as you are, though your opinion seems to be out of spite and no research whatsoever.

[Adam]

I don't say anyone is wrong but after spending a long time researching this case I am entitled to my opinion Adam, just as you are, though your opinion seems to be out of spite and no research whatsoever.

Do you agree that the guilters explanation of how Sheila's blood got into the silencer - back spatter, is watertight?

[Rob_]

Period blood in a bucket of water.

Ok thanks Adam, however I think you will find that dried clots of blood do not dilute in water.

Clots of blood is quite common in you know what.

You know what I think, which is someone got lucky with the flake of blood matching Sheila's blood group.