Author Topic: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.  (Read 13678 times)

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Offline Adam

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Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« on: August 29, 2022, 03:35:PM »
Scenario very short.

No times mentioned. Such as when Sheila got up & when Nevill started engaging downstairs.

No build up to Nevill calling Bamber.

No explanation of why Nevill let Sheila load rifle.

If Sheila loaded rifle when Nevill was not in kitchen, does not say why Sheila did not open fire downstairs/Nevill did not reclaim while fully fit.

No explanation of why Nevill did not put rifle away when arriving downstairs.

No explanation of what woke Nevill.

Relying on Nevill not waking June for assistance.

Relying on June not waking simultaneously with Nevill.

Relying on June or the twins not waking while Sheila gets so bad Nevill decides to call Bamber's AM.

No explanation of why Nevill let Sheila go upstairs with a loaded rifle.

No benefit of Nevill phoning Bamber's AM.

No explanation on why Nevill did not call the police instead of Bamber.

No explanation of how many times Nevill phoned Bamber's AM.

Relying on Bamber picking up the phone instantly. If David believes Nevill would give up phoning quickly.

Relying on Nevill spending several minutes repeatedly ringing Bamber's AM. If David believes Bamber would not wake/ignore.

No explanation of what Sheila was doing while Nevill was phoning Bamber's AM.

No explanation of why Nevill would not instantly reclaim his rifle while fully fit.

No explanation of why Nevill allowed Sheila to load rifle.

No evidence on Sheila.

Nevill bare footed although he got out of bed to go downstairs.

Sheila bare footed although got out of bed to go downstairs.

Relying on Sheila firing rifle at June at the same time Bamber picks up phone.

Relying on Nevill hearing upstairs shots from quiet/silent rifle. 

'Sheila pivots'. Not compatible with her being docile & uncordinated due to Haloperiodal. 

Relying on twins not waking.

Does not say when twins were shot.

Relying on June 'going after Sheila'.

Relying on June 'collapsing with shock'.

Relying on Nevill allowing Sheila to point rifle inches from his face. And not reclaim rifle.

Relying on Nevill not able to calm Sheila down.

Relying on Nevill hearing upstairs shots, then not being prepared for Sheila.

Relying on Nevill hearing upstairs shots. Then instantly retreating.

No description of kitchen fight.

Does not say how Sheila lifted Nevill onto coal scuttle.

Relying on Bamber, June & Nevill not putting rifle away.

No explanation on Sheila's re loads & when she killed herself.

No explanation on what Sheila did after killing 4 people.

Relying on the relatives knowing -

Sheila's arm lenght.

Rifle lenght.

Rifle/silencer lenght.

About back spatter.

Who received contact shots.

Location of contact shots.

All other evidence.

There was not a silencer next to Sheila.

Where to get Sheila's blood.

Crime scene photos of aga.

There was no blood in rifle barrel.

Silencers in WHF were not checked.

How to put Sheila's blood into silencer.

Relatives knowing how to put diluted period blood into silencer.



« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 04:47:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2022, 03:57:PM »
"The Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort. The Gish Gallop is a belt-fed version of the on the spot fallacy, as it's unreasonable for anyone to have a well-composed answer immediately available to every argument present in the Gallop. The Gish Gallop is named after creationist Duane Gish, who often abused it.

Gish Gallops are almost always performed with numerous other logical fallacies baked in. The myriad of component arguments constituting the Gallop may typically intersperse a few perfectly uncontroversial claims — the basic validity of which are intended to lend undue credence to the Gallop at large — with a devious hodgepodge of half-truths, outright lies, red herrings and straw men — which, if not rebutted as the fallacies they are, pile up into egregious problems for the refuter."


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop


Offline Adam

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2022, 04:03:PM »
That's a starting point of 52 flaws in David's sheila scenario. I'll add to it later.

Believe it or not, this was his fifth attempt. He previously said Nevill rang Bamber's AM after Sheila started shooting the twins!

A lot of amending & extra detail needed when David1819 submits his sixth scenario.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 04:47:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2022, 04:11:PM »
At least Rob, ILB & Snow66! went into some detail in their scenarios.

However this creates problems as it means they start inventing things & relying on them happening  to match the crime scene evidence. Rob invented 47 things when there should be none!

Look forward to the updates.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 04:42:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2022, 05:40:PM »
It will be a start if David clarifies how long he believes Nevill called Bamber's AM for.

ILB says around 20 seconds. Rob intially said 11 minutes but could not say what Sheila was doing during this time. So rounded it down - to 30 seconds!

Either way David is either relying on Bamber picking up straight away. Or Nevill spending several minutes repeatedly phoning. Tough choice.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2022, 07:04:PM »
There are no flaws in my Sheila scenario. Adams list of half truths, loaded questions and bullshit has been summarily dismissed!

Offline Adam

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2022, 07:17:PM »
There are no flaws in my Sheila scenario. Adams list of half truths, loaded questions and bullshit has been summarily dismissed!

Scenario very short.

No times mentioned. Such as when Sheila got up & when Nevill started engaging downstairs.

No build up to Nevill calling Bamber.

No explanation of why Nevill let Sheila load rifle.

If Sheila loaded rifle when Nevill was not in kitchen, does not say why Sheila did not open fire downstairs/Nevill did not reclaim while fully fit.

No explanation of why Nevill did not put rifle away when arriving downstairs.

No explanation of what woke Nevill.

Relying on Nevill not waking June for assistance.

Relying on June not waking simultaneously with Nevill.

Relying on June or the twins not waking while Sheila gets so bad Nevill decides to call Bamber's AM

No explanation of why Nevill let Sheila go upstairs with a loaded rifle.

No benefit of Nevill phoning Bamber's AM.

No explanation on why Nevill did not call the police instead of Bamber.

No explanation of how many times Nevill phoned Bamber's AM.

Relying on Bamber picking up the phone instantly. If David believes Nevill would give up phoning quickly.

Relying on Nevill spending several minutes repeatedly ringing Bamber's AM. If David believes Bamber would not wake/ignore.

No explanation of what Sheila was doing while Nevill was phoning Bamber's AM.

No explanation of why Nevill would not instantly reclaim his rifle while fully fit.

No explanation of why Nevill allowed Sheila to load rifle.

No evidence on Sheila.

Nevill bare footed although he got out of bed to go downstairs.

Sheila bare footed although got out of bed to go downstairs.

Relying on Sheila firing rifle at June at the same time Bamber picks up phone.

Relying on Nevill hearing upstairs shots from quiet/silent rifle.

'Sheila pivots'. Not compatible with her being docile & uncordinated due to Haloperiodal.

Relying on twins not waking.

Does not say when twins were shot.

Relying on June 'going after Sheila'.

Relying on June 'collapsing with shock'.

Relying on Nevill allowing Sheila to point rifle inches from his face. And not reclaim rifle.

Relying on Nevill not able to calm Sheila down.

Relying on Nevill hearing upstairs shots, then not being prepared for Sheila.

Relying on Nevill hearing upstairs shots. Then instantly retreating.

No description of kitchen fight.

Does not say how Sheila lifted Nevill onto coal scuttle.

Relying on Bamber, June & Nevill not putting rifle away.

No explanation on Sheila's re loads & when she killed herself.

No explanation on what Sheila did after killing 4 people.

Relying on the relatives knowing -

Sheila's arm lenght.

Rifle lenght.

Rifle/silencer lenght.

About back spatter.

Who received contact shots.

Location of contact shots.

All other evidence.

There was not a silencer next to Sheila.

Where to get Sheila's blood.

Crime scene photos of aga.

There was no blood in rifle barrel.

Silencers in WHF were not checked.

How to put Sheila's blood into silencer.

Relatives knowing how to put diluted period blood into silencer
« Last Edit: August 29, 2022, 07:22:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Kestrel19

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2022, 07:54:PM »
What this means is that Adam’s suddenly realised how stupid he’s made himself look after 9 years of trolling this forum by admitting that until 2 days ago he didn’t even know where White House Farm was!
He’s now trying to bury that thread amongst spurious new threads in his normal style to hopefully ensure it’s not seen by too many people and he can pretend it never happened!

Offline Adam

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2022, 10:12:PM »
What this means is that Adam’s suddenly realised how stupid he’s made himself look after 9 years of trolling this forum by admitting that until 2 days ago he didn’t even know where White House Farm was!
He’s now trying to bury that thread amongst spurious new threads in his normal style to hopefully ensure it’s not seen by too many people and he can pretend it never happened!

I have never hidden from anything you thick shit.

Unlike you who is too much of a coward to create a Sheila scenario.

And yes I hadn't looked at google until recently. And neither had anyone else as far as I know.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Online Rob_

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2022, 10:30:PM »
I have never hidden from anything you thick shit.

Unlike you who is too much of a coward to create a Sheila scenario.

And yes I hadn't looked at google until recently. And neither had anyone else as far as I know.

Well I had Adam but only to check which way WHF faced, (the reflection in the window).

I was not looking at cycle routes as the cycle was never used that night. 

Offline Adam

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2022, 10:32:PM »
Well I had Adam but only to check which way WHF faced, (the reflection in the window).

I was not looking at cycle routes as the cycle was never used that night.

Well the successful prosecution case was that he cycled.

Probably something to do with Julie's WS & the stealing of June's bike.
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Online Rob_

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2022, 10:38:PM »
Well the successful prosecution case was that he cycled.

Probably something to do with Julie's WS & the stealing of June's bike.

They were told it was Sheila's blood and Sheila's blood alone in the silencer that is what decided the case.

21 minutes after this being clarified they convicted.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2022, 09:09:AM »
They were told it was Sheila's blood and Sheila's blood alone in the silencer that is what decided the case.

21 minutes after this being clarified they convicted.

If it wasn't Sheila's blood whose was it?  On the assumption it was Sheila's blood what viable options for a source exist other than 'drawback' as the jury was told at trial? 

Offline lookout

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Re: Flaws in David1819's Sheila scenario.
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2022, 10:10:AM »
It doesn't have to involve anyone else other than herself though,does it ? Drawback or not.