Author Topic: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:  (Read 1987 times)

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Offline Adam

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Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« on: August 04, 2022, 05:24:AM »
Invented Conversations:

June said this. Bamber said that. No proof.

No proof the fostering conversation took place.


Sheila was very docile and uncordinated:

ILB has Sheila going on an unprovoked mad rampage. Twice. Refuting the evidence days & hours beforehand.


Rifle not put away - 4 times.

Nevill misses the rifle at 10pm. Then when returning from walking the dogs/harvesting & when talking to Sheila during her first breakdown.

June also leaves the rifle out.


Nevill cannot hear things

Nevill would not hear Sheila shoot the twins.

ILB is relying on Sheila running on 'creeking' floorboards. Although says Nevill is in a REM sleep. Again impossible.

Nevill would not hear June being shot from downstairs.


Nevill does nothing pro active:

Except phone Bamber's AM.


A fully fit Nevill gets beaten by Sheila. Twice:

Both attacks would be continuous.

The first time with an empty rifle.

Nevill puts up no resistance.

Sheila is injury free.

Nevill does not take the rifle back.

Nevill was twice as big & strong as Sheila. Also a lot fitter being a full time farmer.


June does nothing:

June is awake. She is also a mother, wife & grandmother.

Unlike Sheila in a Bamber scenario. June does nothing except stay in bed & let herself get shot 5 times.


Reliant on Bamber answering the phone within 2 rings:

Agree with ILB that Nevill would definately give up after 2 rings. Sheila was shooting & hitting people.


Reliant on Nevill phoning Bamber's AM:

No benefit to Nevill in doing this.


Sheila does not re load before firing another 9 shots:

I rectified this for ILB.


Sheila reloads & goes upstairs in front of Nevill:

Nevill is ringing Bamber's AM. A few feet from Sheila reloading & then going upstairs with a loaded rifle.


A badly injured Nevill burns his own back. Three times!

ILB has not explained how this is possible.


Scenario does not match the crime scene:

Broken rifle butt in kitchen.

Smashed watch in kitchen.

No evidence of upstairs fight.

No explanation of smashed kitchen ceiling light.

No explanation on how Nevill was lifted onto coal scuttle.

Aga scratches not explained.

ILB claims Sheila moved furniture. While everyone else was in bed!


Time issues for Sheila:

From Nevill's call to Bamber, to the police arriving, Sheila still had a lot to do. As stated by the judge in his summing up.


Sheila shoots herself twice:

Bamber did not dispute this was not possible when interviewed.

First shot knocked her out & would have killed her.


Reliant on Sheila shooting June at the exact same time Bamber answers the phone:

Although as stated Nevill would not hear any upstairs shots.


Reliant on Sheila chambering, breaching & re loading rifle:

Sheila had no experience with rifles.


Nevill does not call the police:

I agree with that. However it is going against the long term big policy of the campaign team.


Nevill leaves everyone to go downstairs:

Twice. The second time he is aware the rifle is loaded.


Nevill being beaten twice & shot 4 times upstairs, would have collapsed upstairs.

Beating was very brutal.


Sheila stops beating Nevill & allows him to go downstairs to phone Bamber's AM:

Injuries highlight beating was fierce & continuous.

Attacker would not stop.


Sheila has a meltdown without provocation. Twice

Everyone was asleep. As you would expect Sheila to be.


Nevill calms Sheila down after the first meltdown.

He is satisfied enough to go back to sleep. Nevill knew Sheila better than anyone.


Things had escalated too far when Nevill pboned Bamber's AM.

Nevill & June's only option was to take the empty rifle off Sheila. Rather than let her reload.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 10:27:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2022, 06:23:AM »
There are 24 headings & 42 sub points. Obviously a lot of major flaws. Each making the scenario impossible.

Hopefully these will be addresses in a new scenario from ILB.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 10:25:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2022, 08:57:AM »
Suppositions and fabrications do not make up a case for murder !

Offline David1819

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2022, 09:34:AM »
"The Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort. The Gish Gallop is a belt-fed version of the on the spot fallacy, as it's unreasonable for anyone to have a well-composed answer immediately available to every argument present in the Gallop. The Gish Gallop is named after creationist Duane Gish, who often abused it.

Gish Gallops are almost always performed with numerous other logical fallacies baked in. The myriad of component arguments constituting the Gallop may typically intersperse a few perfectly uncontroversial claims — the basic validity of which are intended to lend undue credence to the Gallop at large — with a devious hodgepodge of half-truths, outright lies, red herrings and straw men — which, if not rebutted as the fallacies they are, pile up into egregious problems for the refuter."


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

Offline ILB

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2022, 10:16:AM »
1. You have no evidence whatsoever to dismiss Bambers claim of the conversation taking place

2. Haloperidol causes side effects of insomnia, agitation , irritation
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 10:17:AM by ILB »
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Offline Adam

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2022, 10:22:AM »
Sorry I forgot to add that ILB's scenario has Nevill ringing Bamber after things had escalated out of control. Sheila had shot the twins 8 times & beaten a fully fit Nevill.

A fully fit Nevill's & June's only option was to take the rifle off Sheila. At that time the rifle was empty.

Calling Bamber's AM & June staying in bed is not credible.

Will add now.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2022, 10:22:AM »
Everyone's wrong, Adam's always right in Adam's world !

Offline ILB

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2022, 10:54:AM »
Sorry I forgot to add that ILB's scenario has Nevill ringing Bamber after things had escalated out of control. Sheila had shot the twins 8 times & beaten a fully fit Nevill.

A fully fit Nevill's & June's only option was to take the rifle off Sheila. At that time the rifle was empty.

Calling Bamber's AM & June staying in bed is not credible.

Will add now.

What would a 61 year old dimintive women do in such a scenario?

If yesterday you hated me. Then today you can not stop the love that binds from me to you. And you to me

Offline ILB

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2022, 10:57:AM »
3. Your anschuitz rifle sound theory is flawed. The video you posted of the guy in the field on a windy day was not credible

Sorry. Reference not putting the rifle away. What does this amount to exactly. It was an unusual scenario. Also people forget sometimes. Human error
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 10:58:AM by ILB »
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Offline ILB

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2022, 10:59:AM »
Nevile doesn't do anything Pro active. No. Getting shot and beaten can have an effect on that
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Offline ILB

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2022, 11:00:AM »
Nevill could have been beaten into submission by Shelia with a rifle. Very easily.
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Offline ILB

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2022, 11:01:AM »
June does nothing

No probably terrified. Many women at 61 would be.
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Offline ILB

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2022, 11:02:AM »
Bamber would have answered

He isn't reliant on phoning an AM. He wishes to phone his son
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 11:02:AM by ILB »
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Offline ILB

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2022, 12:30:PM »
I did mess up the reloading aspect.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Summary of flaws in ILB's Sheila scenario:
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2022, 01:41:PM »
Hopefully ILB creates a second scenario which does not include these 24 major flaws.

It needs to match the crime scene. The broken rifle butt, scratched aga, smashed ceiling light, smashed watch & upturned furniture shows Nevill was brutally beaten downstairs. After being shot 4 times upstairs.

ILB has a fully fit Nevill being brutally beaten upstairs. Twice. And shot 4 times upstairs. In that case he would have died upstairs.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2022, 01:43:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.