End of the road ?

[Adam]

3 rings and then to answerphone?

My landline is about nine maybe more.

Mine is 3.

[ILB]

Mine is 3.

I think he could have answered.

You don't

We just have different opinions on this aspect

[Steve_uk]

Thanks Steve,thats very interesting.As far as Berkowitz is concerned,of course every case is different,but as you have pointed out,with adoptees there is a definite pattern.Makes you think Steve.With Sheilas mental illness and a shaky relationship with her mother,it is by no means impossible to believe she could have flipped and carried out the massacre,no surprise at all really.Is it?

But there's no evidence that meeting her birth mother, Christine Jay, was detrimental. As for Berkowitz, I think he used his parentage and religion as exculpation for his crimes: he was more bad than mad. https://www.ranker.com/list/david-berkowitz-relationship-with-his-mother/april-a-taylor

[Adam]

I think he could have answered.

You don't

We just have different opinions on this aspect

You are saying '2 calls max'.

I am more flexible. Could be anything from 2 to 20.

Take a hell of a lot of 3-7 rings followed by silence to wake me upstairs.

[ILB]

You are saying '2 calls max'.

I am more flexible. Could be anything from 2 to 20.

Take a hell of a lot of 3-7 rings followed by silence to wake me upstairs.

It could have happened

Just face it

[snow66!]

But there's no evidence that meeting her birth mother, Christine Jay, was detrimental. As for Berkowitz, I think he used his parentage and religion as exculpation for his crimes: he was more bad than mad. https://www.ranker.com/list/david-berkowitz-relationship-with-his-mother/april-a-taylor

Yes,you are right Steve,there is no evidence meeting her birth mother was detrimental,but we never really know what is going on inside someone elses head do we? As for Berkowits,I would agree that he was simply an evil seriel killer,probably using adoption as an excuse.But like most seriel killers he confessed to his crimes right away and said in court that he was glad and would do it again.

Although not a seriel killer as such,if Jeremy Bamber was responsible for killing his family,he must be just as evil as the likes of Berkowitz.Yet he has never wavered from his claim of innocence.This as you know is very unusual for psychotic killers,most are more than willing to explain what drove them to carry out their atrocities.They seem compelled to do so.

Rather than confess,JB has spent almost every waking hour since being locked up sifting through the available evidence,trying to prove his innocence.You must admit that this is very unusual for a guilty man Steve,How do you explain this?

[snow66!]

Serial,sorry!

[Steve_uk]

Yes,you are right Steve,there is no evidence meeting her birth mother was detrimental,but we never really know what is going on inside someone elses head do we? As for Berkowits,I would agree that he was simply an evil seriel killer,probably using adoption as an excuse.But like most seriel killers he confessed to his crimes right away and said in court that he was glad and would do it again.

Although not a seriel killer as such,if Jeremy Bamber was responsible for killing his family,he must be just as evil as the likes of Berkowitz.Yet he has never wavered from his claim of innocence.This as you know is very unusual for psychotic killers,most are more than willing to explain what drove them to carry out their atrocities.They seem compelled to do so.

Rather than confess,JB has spent almost every waking hour since being locked up sifting through the available evidence,trying to prove his innocence.You must admit that this is very unusual for a guilty man Steve,How do you explain this?

It was an opportunistic killing and in his mind worth the risk as the scapegoat was in situ. He was minded to petty criminality such as burglary but this even for him was a huge step up. Now he's incarcerated he's probably frightened of retaliation for being labelled a child killer.

[snow66!]

It was an opportunistic killing and in his mind worth the risk as the scapegoat was in situ. He was minded to petty criminality such as burglary but this even for him was a huge step up. Now he's incarcerated he's probably frightened of retaliation for being labelled a child killer.

Simple as that Steve? I dont know,most psychotic nutters boast of their crimes,even if it means being held in solitary confinement for their own protection.Besides,it has never even been proven that he is in the least bit psychotic.You must believe he is a very good actor indeed Steve.

[ILB]

It was an opportunistic killing and in his mind worth the risk as the scapegoat was in situ. He was minded to petty criminality such as burglary but this even for him was a huge step up. Now he's incarcerated he's probably frightened of retaliation for being labelled a child killer.

He is a not a sex killer. He isn't a classic pedophile child killer

He is not an Ian Huntley Roy whiting type of individual

He is not as high profile in the prison system as you think

I can remember him telling me many years ago his toughest time in jail was after conviction. At HMP wormwood scrubs. After that his jail has been a constant innocence campaign. Many in long lartin though him innocent ( including staff)

Many people in their don't look at Daniel and Nicholas and think Bamber, they term Bamber as the guy who " offed his parents for the dough ( cash)

In fact Daniel and Nicholas seem to fade into the background in the whole scenario. It has always been Shelia or Jeremy the prominent characters. As do nevill and June. Once it got to court it only mattered about Jeremy and Shelia

[Steve_uk]

Simple as that Steve? I dont know,most psychotic nutters boast of their crimes,even if it means being held in solitary confinement for their own protection.Besides,it has never even been proven that he is in the least bit psychotic.You must believe he is a very good actor indeed Steve.

Didn't he himself say he should have been an actor? Don't many murderers blab of their crimes anyway?

[Steve_uk]

He is a not a sex killer. He isn't a classic pedophile child killer

He is not an Ian Huntley Roy whiting type of individual

He is not as high profile in the prison system as you think

I can remember him telling me many years ago his toughest time in jail was after conviction. At HMP wormwood scrubs. After that his jail has been a constant innocence campaign. Many in long lartin though him innocent ( including staff)

Many people in their don't look at Daniel and Nicholas and think Bamber, they term Bamber as the guy who " offed his parents for the dough ( cash)

In fact Daniel and Nicholas seem to fade into the background in the whole scenario. It has always been Shelia or Jeremy the prominent characters. As do nevill and June. Once it got to court it only mattered about Jeremy and Shelia

For me the case is primarily about Daniel and Nicholas and justice for Colin. That's not to say I don't think of Nevill and June, robbed of a comfortable retirement and life itself, not forgetting beautiful Sheila, who only wanted to be told she was pretty and be loved, unwittingly led to her death like a lamb to the slaughter by a diabolical conman, who professed to be her brother.

[ILB]

For me the case is primarily about Daniel and Nicholas and justice for Colin. That's not to say I don't think of Nevill and June, robbed of a comfortable retirement and life itself, not forgetting beautiful Sheila, who only wanted to be told she was pretty and be loved, unwittingly led to her death like a lamb to the slaughter by a diabolical conman, who professed to be her brother.

I was more talking along the lines of Jeremy's time inside as a convicted child killer.

Since going downstairs to the bowels of Chelmsford crown court in October 1986. He has adamantly been on a campaign of innocence.

Hence why his time inside has not been as bad

Jail has been Jeremy's life for the past 37 years. Everyday he talked about his case. It his is entire life. He has convinced many a prisoner and staff member of his innocence.

[snow66!]

For me the case is primarily about Daniel and Nicholas and justice for Colin. That's not to say I don't think of Nevill and June, robbed of a comfortable retirement and life itself, not forgetting beautiful Sheila, who only wanted to be told she was pretty and be loved, unwittingly led to her death like a lamb to the slaughter by a diabolical conman, who professed to be her brother.

I absolutely understand where you are coming from Steve,obviously you are a very caring person appalled at what happened to the Bamber family,one hundred percent sure of JBs guilt.But just take a minute to think about what ILB has said above,that many,even other prisoners and prison officers believe in Bambers innocence.

I will say it again,I firmly believe now,that reasonable doubt is the only sensible view to take in the JB case.I dont know why you are so sure of his guilt with the available evidence.

[ILB]

Bamber is either a good actor or the unluckiest man in the world.

I get offended when Adam calls me a hardcore supporter because I don't support a conviction

It truly shows he has no idea

I have always looked at the case from a neutral prosepective.

I do lean to innocence though

This guy was a lamb to the slaughter from September 1985. Nobody will never convince me otherwise.