Author Topic: End of the road ?  (Read 10620 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2022, 12:29:PM »
Bamber told Julie about MM as a proxy.

Julie did not know if MM had been to WHF before.

What is the issue?

Hopefully David will answer.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2022, 02:09:PM »
JM DID know that MM had been to WHF. He fixed a plumbing problem.

Offline Cambridgecutie

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2022, 02:14:PM »
Are we allowed to know the substance of this 100% proof?

One of the new pieces of evidence is to do with the silencer, that was published on the CT website some time ago.

This article from the Guardian is from 2018  (link below), when Bamber was trying it on with the CPS.  It's about there being more than one silencer (Yawn, yawn).
 
And yes, it is all propaganda.

Below is my unpicking of the article, and I suspect this same 'evidence' has been submitted to the CCRC

 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/21/scientists-report-casts-doubt-on-jeremy-bamber-trial-evidence
 
The important bits in the article are...
 
The confidential report, which has been seen by the Guardian, casts doubt on the validity of evidence relating to a rifle sound moderator, or silencer, that was pivotal to Bamber’s conviction in 1986
 
This is misleading, as the report was commissioned by Bamber.Tthe Govt has no control over it whatsoever. This paragraph implies that the Govt are preventing its release, which is not true.
 
If Bamber wants to publish it, he can, it doesn't have to be 'confidential' if he doesn't want it to be. 

If it's 'confidential' because he's going to use it for his CCRC appeal, then the Guardian should make it clear. They don't.

I can't see why Bamber can't publish the report.

A week before Bamber’s trial started, the head of biology at Huntingdon Science Laboratories wrote a letter to Essex Police, seen by the Guardian, saying that the results of the blood tests would show that the blood “could have come from either Sheila Caffell or Robert Boutflour”.

This is somewhere somewhere between misleading, and outright lie.

Technically the blood could have come from anyone in the world who has the same blood group as Sheila Caffell.  And that includes Robert Boutflour.

The prosecution Counsel had access to this information, because under cross examination at the actual trial, Robert Boutflour was asked if it was possible that he accidentally dripped his blood into the silencer.

So there was no secret or withheld information about Robert Boutflours blood group, and it was all presented to the jury in exactly the same open and transparent way that it would be today.

Bamber has claimed for many years that evidence was not disclosed to the defence by Essex police showing that two silencers had been examined by forensic scientists.

In the new report, the senior forensic scientist and leading firearms expert concluded that separate silencers were being examined by the police at the same time in different departments, based on “serious discrepancies” in how the devices were described and the fact that there was no record of any item being transferred from one section to the other.

Both silencers are believed to contain blood that could belong to either Caffell or Boutflour.

They even admit that both silencers have blood from the same people in it.  This is a very strong clue to even us lay people that it was the same silencer.

The Guardian article then continues...

Although the CPS stated “there is no documentary evidence either provided or referred to which supports the existence of a second silencer”, they added: “Any evidence that suggests that there was or may have been another silencer for the rifle would raise the possibility that the other silencer was used during the shooting and not the one alleged by the prosecution.

So after all of that, this 'forensic evidence' that Jeremy Bamber says 'proves' there was more than one silencer, gets handed over to the CPS,  and the CPS come back and say...

“there is no documentary evidence either provided or referred to which supports the existence of a second silencer”

And that 'evidence' will probably be very similar if not identical to the silencer 'evidence' that Jeremy Bamber has  submitted to the CCRC.

But it has already been publicly rejected by the CPS.

But hey, its 100% proof of his innocence. 

And that, is propaganda. Guardian style.

Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

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Online Roch

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2022, 03:25:PM »
One of the new pieces of evidence is to do with the silencer, that was published on the CT website some time ago.

This article from the Guardian is from 2018  (link below), when Bamber was trying it on with the CPS.  It's about there being more than one silencer (Yawn, yawn).
 
And yes, it is all propaganda.

Below is my unpicking of the article, and I suspect this same 'evidence' has been submitted to the CCRC

 https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/sep/21/scientists-report-casts-doubt-on-jeremy-bamber-trial-evidence
 
The important bits in the article are...
 
The confidential report, which has been seen by the Guardian, casts doubt on the validity of evidence relating to a rifle sound moderator, or silencer, that was pivotal to Bamber’s conviction in 1986
 
This is misleading, as the report was commissioned by Bamber.Tthe Govt has no control over it whatsoever. This paragraph implies that the Govt are preventing its release, which is not true.
 
If Bamber wants to publish it, he can, it doesn't have to be 'confidential' if he doesn't want it to be. 

If it's 'confidential' because he's going to use it for his CCRC appeal, then the Guardian should make it clear. They don't.

I can't see why Bamber can't publish the report.

A week before Bamber’s trial started, the head of biology at Huntingdon Science Laboratories wrote a letter to Essex Police, seen by the Guardian, saying that the results of the blood tests would show that the blood “could have come from either Sheila Caffell or Robert Boutflour”.

This is somewhere somewhere between misleading, and outright lie.

Technically the blood could have come from anyone in the world who has the same blood group as Sheila Caffell.  And that includes Robert Boutflour.

The prosecution Counsel had access to this information, because under cross examination at the actual trial, Robert Boutflour was asked if it was possible that he accidentally dripped his blood into the silencer.

So there was no secret or withheld information about Robert Boutflours blood group, and it was all presented to the jury in exactly the same open and transparent way that it would be today.

Bamber has claimed for many years that evidence was not disclosed to the defence by Essex police showing that two silencers had been examined by forensic scientists.

In the new report, the senior forensic scientist and leading firearms expert concluded that separate silencers were being examined by the police at the same time in different departments, based on “serious discrepancies” in how the devices were described and the fact that there was no record of any item being transferred from one section to the other.

Both silencers are believed to contain blood that could belong to either Caffell or Boutflour.

They even admit that both silencers have blood from the same people in it.  This is a very strong clue to even us lay people that it was the same silencer.

The Guardian article then continues...

Although the CPS stated “there is no documentary evidence either provided or referred to which supports the existence of a second silencer”, they added: “Any evidence that suggests that there was or may have been another silencer for the rifle would raise the possibility that the other silencer was used during the shooting and not the one alleged by the prosecution.

So after all of that, this 'forensic evidence' that Jeremy Bamber says 'proves' there was more than one silencer, gets handed over to the CPS,  and the CPS come back and say...

“there is no documentary evidence either provided or referred to which supports the existence of a second silencer”

And that 'evidence' will probably be very similar if not identical to the silencer 'evidence' that Jeremy Bamber has  submitted to the CCRC.

But it has already been publicly rejected by the CPS.

But hey, its 100% proof of his innocence. 

And that, is propaganda. Guardian style.

This article deals with the sound moderator/s. It is perhaps some contrast for your opinions expressed above.

https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/is-the-ccrc-implicated-in-36-years-of-deception-in-the-case-of-jeremy-bamber

Offline Adam

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2022, 03:39:PM »
JM DID know that MM had been to WHF. He fixed a plumbing problem.

So why didn't she say?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline snow66!

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #80 on: July 22, 2022, 03:44:PM »
Stop being an arse & provide the source.
Hi Adam,you can find referrence to this on Bill's silencer essay that Roch has just re-posted above.

Offline lookout

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #81 on: July 22, 2022, 03:57:PM »
Many thanks for that Roch, even though some of the findings are truly sickening from these people.
Nothing like kicking a man when he's down !

Offline lookout

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #82 on: July 22, 2022, 03:59:PM »
Hi Adam,you can find referrence to this on Bill's silencer essay that Roch has just re-posted above.






He won't read that,snow. Adam's not looking for the truth.

Offline snow66!

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #83 on: July 22, 2022, 04:15:PM »





He won't read that,snow. Adam's not looking for the truth.
I think he is under the impression that he has already found it Lookout,poor kid! :))

Offline Adam

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #84 on: July 22, 2022, 04:17:PM »
Hi Adam,you can find referrence to this on Bill's silencer essay that Roch has just re-posted above.

Bill. That is all I need to know.

DNA did not exist in 1985/6.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline snow66!

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #85 on: July 22, 2022, 04:30:PM »
Bill. That is all I need to know.

DNA did not exist in 1985/6.
If you read Bill's essay,I think you will find he is talking about Martyn Ismail for the 2002 appeal Adam.

Offline Adam

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #86 on: July 22, 2022, 04:37:PM »
If you read Bill's essay,I think you will find he is talking about Martyn Ismail for the 2002 appeal Adam.

The silencer had been destroyed by then. Or had no blood left to test. NGB can confirm.

RB cannot refuse to give a blood sample if ordered by the courts.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Cambridgecutie

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #87 on: July 22, 2022, 04:58:PM »
This article deals with the sound moderator/s. It is perhaps some contrast for your opinions expressed above.

https://empowerinnocent.wixsite.com/ccrcwatch/post/is-the-ccrc-implicated-in-36-years-of-deception-in-the-case-of-jeremy-bamber

The important thing to note with the Guardian article is that they say they've obtained forensic evidence showing that there were two silencers.  And they say that this evidence undermines the prosecution case.

Jeremy Bamber's lawyers then submitted the evidence to the CPS

The CPS studied the evidence that shows that there were two silencers.

The CPS then make a public statement quoted as follows:

“there is no documentary evidence either provided or referred to which supports the existence of a second silencer”

In the same article Jeremy Bamber makes this quote:

Bamber said: “The report in the hands of the CPS proves with absolute certainty that this case featured two silencers. And now the CPS must act. There are moments in life when the truth can no longer be suppressed and this is one of those times.”

And let's just remind ourselves how the CPS reacted after studying this so-called 'proof':

“there is no documentary evidence either provided or referred to which supports the existence of a second silencer”

And this is almost certainly what he's submitted to the CCRC.  And it has already been rejected.

Hyperbole. Propaganda. Fantasy.
Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

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Offline David1819

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #88 on: July 22, 2022, 05:01:PM »

A week before Bamber’s trial started, the head of biology at Huntingdon Science Laboratories wrote a letter to Essex Police, seen by the Guardian, saying that the results of the blood tests would show that the blood “could have come from either Sheila Caffell or Robert Boutflour”.

This is somewhere somewhere between misleading, and outright lie.


No. That is what is stated in the letter.

« Last Edit: July 22, 2022, 05:03:PM by David1819 »

Offline Adam

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Re: End of the road ?
« Reply #89 on: July 22, 2022, 05:02:PM »
“there is no documentary evidence either provided or referred to which supports the existence of a second silencer”

----------

Have you got a link to that quote?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.