Author Topic: Burning down of the caravan park shop.  (Read 11202 times)

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Offline ILB

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #210 on: July 16, 2022, 01:28:PM »
You need to cut the 'if's.

The 200+ pieces of evidence shows he is guilty. Nothing shows he is innocent.

But an interesting case to discuss.

Nothing conclusivley shows he is gulity. there is no smoking gun.
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Offline Adam

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #211 on: July 16, 2022, 01:32:PM »
He wouldn't be disputing experts from a police interview room. That would be his QC'S job at any subsequent trial

He could say -

'He must be wrong'.

'I don't believe that'

'Show me the evidence'.

'How can that be if my dad said Sheila had gone crazy'.

---------

He didn't say any of these when told Sheila could not have shot herself twice.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #212 on: July 16, 2022, 01:34:PM »
Nothing conclusivley shows he is gulity. there is no smoking gun.

There is gun accessorie with Sheila's blood & paint on.
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Offline ILB

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #213 on: July 16, 2022, 01:37:PM »
There is gun accessorie with Sheila's blood & paint on.

Blood belonging to Shelias blood group. A blood group shared by a percentage of the population
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Offline ILB

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #214 on: July 16, 2022, 01:39:PM »
He could say -

'He must be wrong'.

'I don't believe that'

'Show me the evidence'.

'How can that be if my dad said Sheila had gone crazy'.

---------

He didn't say any of these when told Sheila could not have shot herself twice.

Perhaps he thought the police were leading him up the garden path. He was being grilled. And obviously would be on guard.

Maybe at Bruce bowlers legal advice?

Didn't incriminate himself still
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Offline Adam

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #215 on: July 16, 2022, 01:45:PM »
Perhaps he thought the police were leading him up the garden path. He was being grilled. And obviously would be on guard.

Maybe at Bruce bowlers legal advice?

Didn't incriminate himself still

I'm sure BB didn't advise him to agree.

Then say a 'she', 'Crispy' or 'reflexes' resulted in the second shot.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 01:49:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline ILB

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #216 on: July 16, 2022, 01:53:PM »
I'm sure BB didn't advise him to agree.

Then say a 'she', 'Crispy' or 'reflexes' resulted in the second shot.

He was evidently being sarcastic
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 01:54:PM by ILB »
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Offline ILB

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #217 on: July 16, 2022, 01:57:PM »
How does Jeremy Bamber get a mentally unhinged schizophrenic women to lie down so he can shoot her? With a long rifle used to shoot rabbits?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 01:57:PM by ILB »
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Offline Adam

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #218 on: July 16, 2022, 01:57:PM »
He was evidently being sarcastic

He was saying 'it was not me'. By suggesting alternatives.

One of the few times he gave a straight answer. 
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline ILB

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #219 on: July 16, 2022, 01:58:PM »
He was saying 'it was not me'. By suggesting alternatives.

One of the few times he gave a straight answer.

You don't think referencing a dog as being the culprit was not showing sarcasm?
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Offline Adam

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #220 on: July 16, 2022, 01:59:PM »
How does Jeremy Bamber get a mentally unhinged schizophrenic women to lie down so he can shoot her? With a long rifle used to shoot rabbits?

That was a change of direction.

It's been explained before. Feel free to work it out yourself.

How is your Sheila scenario going?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 02:01:PM by Adam »
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Offline Adam

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #221 on: July 16, 2022, 01:59:PM »
You don't think referencing a dog as being the culprit was not showing sarcasm?

Desperation.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline ILB

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #222 on: July 16, 2022, 02:06:PM »
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Offline Cambridgecutie

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #223 on: July 16, 2022, 04:38:PM »
How does Jeremy Bamber get a mentally unhinged schizophrenic women to lie down so he can shoot her? With a long rifle used to shoot rabbits?

Sheila wasn't mentally unhinged.   You are either ignorant, or angry/frustrated that you can't win the argument.

Resorting to stereotyping mental health patients, says more about your lack of understanding and lack of empathy, than it does about Sheila Caffell.

If Sheila felt that there was no physical way to escape, she would almost certainly have begged for mercy.

She would also have been terrified.

Jeremy Bamber may also have re-assured Sheila that he was only killing the parents, and that no one else was in any danger. Do what he says and everything will be alright.  That is entirely plausible given the known facts.  Far more plausible than Sheila fighting back.

Sheila also had an extreme reaction to the drug she was taking, that wouldn't have been diminished just because the dosage was halved (There is strong evidence that the tranquilising effect had not significantly diminished as a result of halving her dose). 

Haloperidol doesn't work by tranquilising patients.  The tranquilising effect of the drug is an unwanted side effect. 

Another unwanted side effect of the drug that is experienced by even fewer patients, are symptoms similar to that of Parkinsons disease.

Parkinsons doesn't just cause tremors, it also causes slow movement.

Sheila is known to have been suffering both of those symptoms from the drug.  Her body had a really bad reaction to the drug. It's the Parkinsons symptoms that contributed to her poor co-ordination and slow movement, that led people to say that she couldn't even make a cup of tea.

Not only does it make it less likely that Sheila was the killer, the side-effects of the drug would have helped to placate Sheila prior to being murdered.

I don't know why Jeremy Bamber supporters think that a tranquilised, stick thin woman exhibiting symptoms of Parkinsons would either be able to smash Nevill Bambers skull and arms to smithereens, or overpower her psychotic brother who has just murdered the family, and is now high on adrenaline.

It's also a line of defence that has not been pursued by Jeremy Bambers lawyers.  It's much harder to demonise and persecute mental health patients now, than it was in 1986.

Obviously, demonising and persecuting the mentally ill may still be very popular amongst the wider public, and is a stick used frequently to beat Sheila with.  But  blaming the mad-old-schizo-bint-with-the-strength-of-ten-men won't wash from a legal point any more.
 

Patrick O'Connor, Barrister, Doughty Street Chambers: "It will have to be a slam dunk.  It will have to be something of a blockbuster piece of evidence to have a chance".

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Offline ILB

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Re: Burning down of the caravan park shop.
« Reply #224 on: July 16, 2022, 05:18:PM »
Sheila wasn't mentally unhinged.   You are either ignorant, or angry/frustrated that you can't win the argument.

Resorting to stereotyping mental health patients, says more about your lack of understanding and lack of empathy, than it does about Sheila Caffell.

If Sheila felt that there was no physical way to escape, she would almost certainly have begged for mercy.

She would also have been terrified.

Jeremy Bamber may also have re-assured Sheila that he was only killing the parents, and that no one else was in any danger. Do what he says and everything will be alright.  That is entirely plausible given the known facts.  Far more plausible than Sheila fighting back.

Sheila also had an extreme reaction to the drug she was taking, that wouldn't have been diminished just because the dosage was halved (There is strong evidence that the tranquilising effect had not significantly diminished as a result of halving her dose). 

Haloperidol doesn't work by tranquilising patients.  The tranquilising effect of the drug is an unwanted side effect. 

Another unwanted side effect of the drug that is experienced by even fewer patients, are symptoms similar to that of Parkinsons disease.

Parkinsons doesn't just cause tremors, it also causes slow movement.

Sheila is known to have been suffering both of those symptoms from the drug.  Her body had a really bad reaction to the drug. It's the Parkinsons symptoms that contributed to her poor co-ordination and slow movement, that led people to say that she couldn't even make a cup of tea.

Not only does it make it less likely that Sheila was the killer, the side-effects of the drug would have helped to placate Sheila prior to being murdered.

I don't know why Jeremy Bamber supporters think that a tranquilised, stick thin woman exhibiting symptoms of Parkinsons would either be able to smash Nevill Bambers skull and arms to smithereens, or overpower her psychotic brother who has just murdered the family, and is now high on adrenaline.

It's also a line of defence that has not been pursued by Jeremy Bambers lawyers.  It's much harder to demonise and persecute mental health patients now, than it was in 1986.

Obviously, demonising and persecuting the mentally ill may still be very popular amongst the wider public, and is a stick used frequently to beat Sheila with.  But  blaming the mad-old-schizo-bint-with-the-strength-of-ten-men won't wash from a legal point any more.
 

I'm not losing any argument. I never asked for one. I look at all aspects of the case. I'm on the fence. Nothing is coming close to changing that.

I'm not here to slate or tar anybody under the umbrella of stigma reference mental health.

She was unwell.

If she was unable to carry out a simple task of not being able to make a cup of tea, then she wouldn't be able to care for two small children, and undertake( even if fail to hold down) a number of cleaning jobs. People put Shelia in this category as more or less being static. She might have had numerous problems, but she was a reasonably energetic woman. Had a good social life, and was an active mother. All this crap about being unable to not make beans on toast, I'm sorry I don't buy it. AE here was putting Shelia down so much here. And also trying to embellish against Bamber.

Where did I reference Shelia having the strength of ten men?

What do you think Jeremy Bamber said to Shelia then to calm her? I don't think your reason of he said " it's ok I've just killed mum and dad " would have a calming effect. June and Shelia despite differences were reasonably close. And Shelia was know to adore nevill.
 
Don't come back at me saying " well she wouldn't harm them then" that's a weak argument. Many people have harmed people they care deeply about

This would have not been an easy task. Even if Bamber had her at gunpoint. Some sort of struggle would have taken place. He couldn't shoot her numerous times, he couldn't punch her, kick her, the bruises would take some explaining.

You are left with him saying calming words to a woman to effect what he wanted at gun point, and at an awkward angle with a long rifle

And Shelia not reacting
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 05:27:PM by ILB »
If yesterday you hated me. Then today you can not stop the love that binds from me to you. And you to me