Evidence Sheila was docile/uncoordinated just before being shot:

[Rob_]

He might well "...waste 20 minutes calling [his] girlfriend and thumbing through a phone book" if he is innocent, as he might have wanted Sheila to kill them.

On the other hand, if he is guilty, then he knows everybody is dead, so why delay and why not dial 999?

Thanks my thoughts precisely!

[guest29835]

Who's to say that Sheila didn't freeze?

Who's to say that Sheila hadn't just woken up and wandered into the bedroom moments before JB returns upstairs, almost paralyzed by fear, she stumbles over and is already on the floor when he approaches?

There are all sorts of permutations.

The 'freeze' theory has been discussed on here and can be dismissed in five seconds.  Even if she did 'freeze', she must still move or be moved, so you still have to explain a great deal and 'freezing' doesn't explain any of it.

Now you suggest she may have stumbled over, which goes against what you said earlier when you tried to suggest that just having a rifle was enough for Jeremy. 

It appears that, like everybody else, you don't have a single clue how it happened.  You are just guessing.  But you maintain Jeremy did it.  You are entitled to do so, of course.

[Adam]

I don't accept that you have answered the question.  You've given a glib answer which can be summed up as: Sheila is smaller and weaker than Jeremy, therefore Jeremy can just somehow make her do what he wants.  There's no detail in your answer, and neither you nor Armchair Detective have answered my other questions - except that you claim it is all 'common sense' (whatever that means).

I would suggest you and Armchair Detective have not thought it all through.

That is correct.

Sheila being docile & uncoordinated from the numerous side effects of the very powerful Haloperiodal would be another bonus.

'Sheila' was not docile, or uncoordinated on the evening of the 6th August 1985

[Armchair Detective]

The 'freeze' theory has been discussed on here and can be dismissed in five seconds.  Even if she did 'freeze', she must still move or be moved, so you still have to explain a great deal and 'freezing' doesn't explain any of it.

Now you suggest she may have stumbled over, which goes against what you said earlier when you tried to suggest that just having a rifle was enough for Jeremy. 

It appears that, like everybody else, you don't have a single clue how it happened.  You are just guessing.  But you maintain Jeremy did it.  You are entitled to do so, of course.

We are all just guessing aren't we?

Sheila freezing or just doing as she is told is much more likely than her turing into Jackie Chan IMO.

[Steve_uk]

How did he control her?

You haven't answered the question.

We're talking about a matter of seconds. He woke her up with some tale which came naturally in other circumstances, leading her swiftly across the landing to the master bedroom, where she had no time to react at all: no movement save a hand to the neck on the first report, then falling back as the fatal shot was fired. No physical contact with other members of the family as the nightdress shows, no strenuous effort as the facial features belied, only Jeremy, contemptuous to the last, as he pulled her legs, causing the rucked up apparel, tossing the blue Bible onto the corpse and vowing never to return to the premises he had loathed so much for so long.

[snow66!]

Who's to say that Sheila didn't freeze?

Who's to say that Sheila hadn't just woken up and wandered into the bedroom moments before JB returns upstairs, almost paralyzed by fear, she stumbles over and is already on the floor when he approaches?

There are all sorts of permutations.

That is more or less the official police scenario Armchair,except that June was still alive when JB entered the room and was shot first.

[Steve_uk]

He might well "...waste 20 minutes calling [his] girlfriend and thumbing through a phone book" if he is innocent, as he might have wanted Sheila to kill them.

On the other hand, if he is guilty, then he knows everybody is dead, so why delay and why not dial 999?

He needed time to clean up and put on an extra blouson, for what reason only he knows. Why we must at all times have concepts which accord with the mind of a mentally-ill individual beats me.

[mike tesko]

We're talking about a matter of seconds. He woke her up with some tale which came naturally in other circumstances, leading her swiftly across the landing to the master bedroom, where she had no time to react at all: no movement save a hand to the neck on the first report, then falling back as the fatal shot was fired. No physical contact with other members of the family as the nightdress shows, no strenuous effort as the facial features belied, only Jeremy, contemptuous to the last, as he pulled her legs, causing the rucked up apparel, tossing the blue Bible onto the corpse and vowing never to return to the premises he had loathed so much for so long.

On the contrary, there were other types of blood found and analysed on the front and rear of 'Sheila Caffells nightdress' [blood stain 1, and blood stain 2, on the front of her nightdress, and 'stain 3 on the reverse of the same garment [the results of which were not disclosed to the defence pre-trial, and for a long time afterwards!

[Rob_]

He needed time to clean up and put on an extra blouson, for what reason only he knows. Why we must at all times have concepts which accord with the mind of a mentally-ill individual beats me.

Please elaborate Steve time for what? if he is guilty he just gets ready, changed, cleaned up or whatever then just calls the police? He is under no time constraints?

[Steve_uk]

The 'freeze' theory has been discussed on here and can be dismissed in five seconds.  Even if she did 'freeze', she must still move or be moved, so you still have to explain a great deal and 'freezing' doesn't explain any of it.

Now you suggest she may have stumbled over, which goes against what you said earlier when you tried to suggest that just having a rifle was enough for Jeremy. 

It appears that, like everybody else, you don't have a single clue how it happened.  You are just guessing.  But you maintain Jeremy did it.  You are entitled to do so, of course.

But you can freeze mentally without freezing physically.

[Adam]

With Sheila for those few seconds, Bamber either -

Used persuasion.

Used force.

Used a combination of persuasion & force.

Carried Sheila.

Took advantage of an awake & up Sheila who froze.

-------

All of the above made easier as Sheila was on the very powerful Haloperiodal.

[Steve_uk]

On the contrary, there were other types of blood found and analysed on the front and rear of 'Sheila Caffells nightdress [blood stain 1, and bloodstainshh 2 on the front of her nightdress, and stain three on the reverse of the same garment [the results of which were not disclosed to the defence pre-trial, and for a long time afterwards!

Mike I believe the person from whom you retrieved these documents has falsified them for his or her own purposes.

[Steve_uk]

Please elaborate Steve time for what? if he is guilty he just gets ready, changed, cleaned up or whatever then just calls the police? He is under no time constraints?

But the crimes are predicated on establishing the alibi that he is located at Bourtree Cottage when the massacre occurred. Any delay between the killings and the initial telephone call to police weakens this alibi.

   [`who placed the rifle at the box room window, at 7.15am, a box room located between the main bedroom and the bedroom where the two child victims were shot? Moreover, why have police not accounted for the presence of this/that rifle leaning against the inside payne of that particular box room window?


'WPC Julia Jeapes' and 'another officer' who were 'present in the grounds of the farmhouse' both made witness statement confirming the sudden appearance of that rifle, at that box room window. Now, just to be clear, if there was only one rifle present upstairs at the farmhouse crime scene, then it stands to reason, that if it was the rifle which cops used to stage manage 'Sheila Caffells death scene on the bedroom floor, how did' that rifle  get from it leaning against the inside of the box room window (7.15am),into the main bedroom (next door) and end up upon 'Sheila' s body by 9.13am, on that same morning?

[snow66!]

Murun Buchstansangur.

[guest29835]

But the crimes are predicated on establishing the alibi that he is located at Bourtree Cottage when the massacre occurred. Any delay between the killings and the initial telephone call to police weakens this alibi.

So why would he delay?