Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.

[Adam]

As my thread post confirms, Sheila's condition would not be a factor in stopping Bamber going ahead.

He had planned it for months & had a short window of opportunity. The rewards were too tempting to resist.

Sheila being physically & mentally unable to resist was a bonus for him which he became aware of during his supper reconnaissance. Deciding 'it's now or never'.

The main significance of Sheila's condition, is that together with the crime scene evidence, it rules her out as a suspect.

[Adam]

This is exactly what it says in CALs book,whether it came from witness statements,who knows.------At the house,June answered the telephone when it rang again just after the hour.it was Pamela,wanting to know if Sheila and the twins had arrived that weekend.June told her that Sheila was just going to bed.I then spoke to Sheila,Pamela recalled,and i enquired as to how she was keeping.She told me she was alright and she also said that she had been to visit an elderly lady with June and had taken the twins.Pamela did most of the talking.Sheila didnt chat as she generally did,and after two or three minutes the conversation dried up,June came back on the phone.I thought this was strange as [Sheila] didnt even say;goodnight auntie Pam;,which she normally would do.June told her Sheila had gone to bed,adding that she was very worried about her and wanted Pamela to see her 'and form an opinion about her health'.She had no interest in anything,including the twins'.June then explained she had been 'trying to persuade Sheila to take a holiday at a home in Bournemouth'.Pamela invited them all over for lunch on thursday and,after discussing their mother's care,the sisters said goodnight.In wix,Pamela told Robert that the conversation with Sheila had been 'hard-going'.She sounded like 'a zombie' and didnt want to feed the twins or look after herself,which was why June wanted their advice about 'putting Sheila into a nursing home.Describing the phone call to Colin some days later,Pamela recalled an extra detail;June had wanted Sheila to stay with a 'Christian community in Bournemouth'.-----------------------------Where CAL got all these specific details from who knows.Is it all in witness statements or through personal interviews.For one thing the -yes,no-- answers have been expanded to what you would call a short two way conversation.So what is fact in CALS book?

If Sheila was on the brink of going into a nursing home, then Bamber may have been aware he was in the last chance saloon.

Sheila & the twins simultaneously staying at WHF again may never have happened.

[Jane]

I think it is worth pointing out that when Sheila requested that her Haloperidol be reduced because she was tired,that Dr Angeloglou thought the reason for her tiredness may be due to the fact she was not taking her procyclidene tablets.Why was this not followed up?According to Dr Angeloglou Sheila was prescribed a months supply of procyclidene tablets on 29th April,so she would have been due a repeat prescription on29th May.There is no mention of a repeat prescription on this date.Did Dr Wilkinson ask Sheila about the procyclidene tablets ? Did she know she was due a repeat prescription? Did she get one on 29th May? If not,why not,and why was this not checked when Dr Angeloglou discussed Sheilas reduced dose of Haloperiol with Dr Wilkinson.Surely Dr Angeloglou had a record of the dates Sheila had been prescribed the procyclidene tablets,and knowing the Haloperidol was a strong tranquillizer ,it should have been important to check if she was taking them.And surely imperitive to keep her supplied with repeat prescriptions.Wasnt it too late for the Doctors to discuss whether or not Sheila was taking the tablets BEFORE they agreed to lower the dose of Haloperidol?If they made checks as to whether Sheila was taking the tablets,a reduction of the Haloperidol may have been avoided.Sheilas was a very serious case,and No mistakes in her medication could be afforded.Dr Ferguson says in CALS book that 100mg would be regarded as a small dose.After seeing the result of JBs trial on tv,Ferguson said he was 'glad that it wasnt Sheila after all'.I wonder why?

Firstly, I wouldn't say "Sheila's was a very serious case". At least, no more serious than anyone else, who'd been admitted to hospital suffering psychosis and prescribed Haloperidol. "Should have" is a frequently used expression when things go wrong. Are they any more right now? In my area, it's recently been announced that there have been 1500 deaths over the last 20 years, all in the mental health area, some in hospitals where they were being 'cared for', and some within three months of them leaving.
It has been alleged that Sheila wasn't taking the prescribed procyclidene. Had Dr Angeloglou suspect that to be the reason for her tiredness, she wouldn't have agreed to requesting a reduction in the Haloperidol dose. Incidentally, the doctor who administered her last dose was, in fact, a locum. I can't remember if this was Dr Angeloglou or Dr Wilkinson, but given that she received consecutive doses, it seems she may have been given her following appointment before leaving the surgery.

 You seem very concerned that the requisite 'i's' weren't dotted and 't's' crossed -another "should have"- but how were they going to check on whether or not Sheila was taking her oral meds, regularly. It was precisely for that reason, ie that they couldn't check, that Haloperidol -the imperative medication- was administered intravenously. For the rest, it was Sheila's responsibility. If, as a result of not taking it, she felt overly tired, it was down to her.

I can fully understand that Dr Ferguson was "glad it wasn't Sheila". Not only had he known her quite well, and I imagine she had a attractive and likeable personality, he'd also known her mother. I don't think, from how he couched his words, he ever believed Sheila to have been responsible -I suspect he'd have found difficulty in believing it had it been found to have been her- and he'd have been pleased she'd been exonerated.

[Jane]

This is exactly what it says in CALs book,......................Where CAL got all these specific details from who knows.Is it all in witness statements or through personal interviews.For one thing the -yes,no-- answers have been expanded to what you would call a short two way conversation.So what is fact in CALS book?

It's perfectly possible that she got it from Pamela, who only died a couple of years ago, just shy of, or slightly more than, 100.

[Jane]

Don't think he can exercise the same control in Wakefield!!! Grim place indeed. I wouldn't even want to walk past it. I certainly hadn't previously known the calibre of its inmates. What an eye opener.

[lookout]

Don't think he can exercise the same control in Wakefield!!! Grim place indeed. I wouldn't even want to walk past it. I certainly hadn't previously known the calibre of its inmates. What an eye opener.

I've only just realised that the doc. is over a year old. I thought it was up to date as I hadn't seen it before. It was indeed an eye-opener, with Mawdsley admitting he'd never killed killed women or children ? However, it looks as though Bronson will be released this year---June/ July, although he hadn't killed anyone. He'd been involved in armed robbery from an early age then continued attacks on prison officers.

[lookout]

There's no way that I'd be able to exist there if I was guilty, as a better option would be suicide.

[Jane]

I've only just realised that the doc. is over a year old. I thought it was up to date as I hadn't seen it before. It was indeed an eye-opener, with Mawdsley admitting he'd never killed killed women or children ? However, it looks as though Bronson will be released this year---June/ July, although he hadn't killed anyone. He'd been involved in armed robbery from an early age then continued attacks on prison officers.

It's unfortunate that he gets associated with Charles Manson!

[lookout]

Mawdsley will never be released since his admissions that he'd continue to kill so the place is home to him, and as a speaker said, it would either be there or the death penalty, which is something that I'd gathered that a few ex-officers were in support of . And why not ?? Death is a better option than being in such a grim place.

[lookout]

It's unfortunate that he gets associated with Charles Manson!

Indeed it is.

[lookout]

Although I'm all for ridding the place of paedo's, it was Mawdsley's methods that he'd  allegedly used which were unsavoury.

[Jane]

Although I'm all for ridding the place of paedo's, it was Mawdsley's methods that he'd  allegedly used which were unsavoury.

I was amused -wrong word, perhaps?- by the pecking order/rating system of what made Prisoner A less monstrous!! than Prisoner B.

[snow66!]

If Sheila was on the brink of going into a nursing home, then Bamber may have been aware he was in the last chance saloon.

Sheila & the twins simultaneously staying at WHF again may never have happened.

Good morning Adam.Another way of looking at it would be,if Sheila heard this too,she would have realised just how ill she was and ending up in a home would seperate her from the twins.Cue breakdown as suggested by Dr Fergusson.

[snow66!]

Firstly, I wouldn't say "Sheila's was a very serious case". At least, no more serious than anyone else, who'd been admitted to hospital suffering psychosis and prescribed Haloperidol. "Should have" is a frequently used expression when things go wrong. Are they any more right now? In my area, it's recently been announced that there have been 1500 deaths over the last 20 years, all in the mental health area, some in hospitals where they were being 'cared for', and some within three months of them leaving.
It has been alleged that Sheila wasn't taking the prescribed procyclidene. Had Dr Angeloglou suspect that to be the reason for her tiredness, she wouldn't have agreed to requesting a reduction in the Haloperidol dose. Incidentally, the doctor who administered her last dose was, in fact, a locum. I can't remember if this was Dr Angeloglou or Dr Wilkinson, but given that she received consecutive doses, it seems she may have been given her following appointment before leaving the surgery.

 You seem very concerned that the requisite 'i's' weren't dotted and 't's' crossed -another "should have"- but how were they going to check on whether or not Sheila was taking her oral meds, regularly. It was precisely for that reason, ie that they couldn't check, that Haloperidol -the imperative medication- was administered intravenously. For the rest, it was Sheila's responsibility. If, as a result of not taking it, she felt overly tired, it was down to her.

I can fully understand that Dr Ferguson was "glad it wasn't Sheila". Not only had he known her quite well, and I imagine she had a attractive and likeable personality, he'd also known her mother. I don't think, from how he couched his words, he ever believed Sheila to have been responsible -I suspect he'd have found difficulty in believing it had it been found to have been her- and he'd have been pleased she'd been exonerated.

Good morning Jane.It was Dr Wilkinson who addministered the last dose of Haloperidol in the evening,because Sheila had missed her appointment earlier that day.And let us not forget it should have been 150mg not 100,quite a serious mistake for a start,but we are told its still a theraputic dose.Now i would say Sheila was quite an ill patient,you dont get threatened with a nursing home at 28years  old unless something is seriously out of the ordinary.Now,you say it was up to Sheila to take all her meds as a grown up.But she was a very ill grown up,and Dr Fergusson stated many times that she was a difficult patient who could not be trusted to take her meds regularly.It should have been imperative to pass on all this info to Sheilas GP,and as soon as Sheila asked for the Haloperidol to be reduced because of tiredness,a symptom that SHOULD have been controlled by the procyclidene,alarm bells should have immediately rung.The first thing Dr Wilkinson should have done was quiz Sheila about the proc  tablets before even considering reducing the dose of Haloperidol.Dont you agree Jane? And i will say again,how many prescriptions of the procyclidene tablets did Sheila recieve,she couldnt possibly take them if she didnt have any to take.So her GP should have checked if she had a current supply of the tablets and whether she was taking them or not BEFORE any decision about the Haloperidol was taken.And surely in Dr Wilkinsons discussion with Dr Angeloglou  which took place after the injection was given,the procyclidene tablets would have been discussed.So i will say again,how many times was Sheila prescribed the procyclidene tablets,and how many were found after her death.They couldnt just disappear,unless Sheila was flushing them down the toilet,You seem to think it is ok to simply accept Sheila was a grown up with rights and therefore be trusted to take her meds or otherwise without interference.But she was a very ill grown up,and if the Doctors knew she was prone to skipping her meds,surely intermediate checks should have been made on her,especially when she requested to have the Haloperidol reduced.Surely this was a red light for a discussion with her.As far as i can see the procyclidene tablets issue and whether Sheila was taking them or not,and how many times she was prescribed them has simply been swept under the carpet as irrellivent.And the thing is CAL had the chance to quiz Dr Fergusson about the tablets as well as the Haloperidol when interviewing him,but little is said about them,only that theySUSPECTED she may not have been taking them.Is this good enough,shouldnt they have made damned sure if Sheila was taking the tablets or not BEFORE reducing the Haloperidol,which some feel could have caused the catastrophe that followed.

[guest29835]

Not sure what else can be supplied to show that Sheila was sadly a sitting duck -

CAL - Zombie.

Wilkes - Zombie.

CAL - Sheila unable to get off sofa's without help.

Form Colin Caffell.  Not reliable source.

PB's WS.

Bamber's WS.

Julie's WS.

Michael Horsnell.

Sheila on Haloperidol.

The numerous strong side effects of Haloperiodal.

Sheila asking her dosage to be reduced as she could not function.

Bamber's appearance around an hour after the massacre.

The crime scene evidence.

It's good that you're clueing us in like this Adam.  I've certainly benefited from your insights.  I was starting to get drawn in by Rob and Snow.  Rob's a smooth talker.  You've pulled me back from the brink.