Author Topic: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.  (Read 22923 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #135 on: March 27, 2022, 12:22:PM »
The cops, took video footage, of the atrocities they committed involving the bodies of victims. The truth was recorded on tape, for posteritory! The state pretends no such evidence exists!!!

Murdering 'BASTARDOS'...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Online snow66!

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #136 on: March 27, 2022, 01:13:PM »
I will sift through, the 50,000 documents in my possession, to try and resolve this 'matter/issue'....
That would hopefully help to clarify things Mike.But obviously it is no easy task sifting thruogh all the documents in your possession for one specific paper.

Online snow66!

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #137 on: March 27, 2022, 01:32:PM »
Do you know what page it's mentioned on, please Snow?

If what Adam says is anything to go by, Carol Ann Lee's source may be Roger Wilkes, in which case it can probably be dismissed as Mr Wilkes' book is unreferenced and largely unsourced and he exercises a considerable degree of licence, even inventing remarks or incidents that never occurred. 

The Wilkes and Lee books have their merits and should be read by everybody interested in the case, but both authors have damaged understanding of the case due to their tendency towards licence.  Even I occasionally lapse into error due to the influence of the books and I will say something that in my mind is fact but which actually came from a book and is a misrepresentation or flat out wrong.  Both authors should be read, but read with due caution.

Unfortunately, I do not have Michael Horsnell's statement.  I see from a search of the Forum that I have in the past asked a member on here for a copy of it as he kept quoting it, but a copy was not forthcoming and I suspect he based his views on Carol Ann Lee.

If there is a statement (there may not be), Mike will almost-certainly have it.
Hi Gascoigne,the phone conversation is on pages 157-158 of CALs book-The murders at Whitehouse farm--CAL says she interviewed leading figures from the 1985 enquiry,including Ferguson,Vanezis and Malcolm Fletcher.She says 'i have also drawn on several thousand pages of UNPUBLISHED documentation such as witness statements,police records,court documents,personal letters,notebooks and memoirs in an effort to write a balanced,comprehensive study of the case'  She also says some of the crime scene photos on the web and elsewhere have been substantially re-touched. She also says some statements on the web about Sheila have been made up,but she is quoting from original records.So does this mean CAL had access to photos and statements that no one else has seen,including JB?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #138 on: March 27, 2022, 02:11:PM »
Hi Gascoigne,the phone conversation is on pages 157-158 of CALs book-The murders at Whitehouse farm--CAL says she interviewed leading figures from the 1985 enquiry,including Ferguson,Vanezis and Malcolm Fletcher.She says 'i have also drawn on several thousand pages of UNPUBLISHED documentation such as witness statements,police records,court documents,personal letters,notebooks and memoirs in an effort to write a balanced,comprehensive study of the case'  She also says some of the crime scene photos on the web and elsewhere have been substantially re-touched. She also says some statements on the web about Sheila have been made up,but she is quoting from original records.So does this mean CAL had access to photos and statements that no one else has seen,including JB?

This author has to be regarded as 'dishonest', 'she does not comment or report the true facts as is now known! Anybody who has purchased her book, is entitled to a refund from her...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

guest29835

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #139 on: March 27, 2022, 02:36:PM »
Hi Gascoigne,the phone conversation is on pages 157-158 of CALs book-The murders at Whitehouse farm--CAL says she interviewed leading figures from the 1985 enquiry,including Ferguson,Vanezis and Malcolm Fletcher.She says 'i have also drawn on several thousand pages of UNPUBLISHED documentation such as witness statements,police records,court documents,personal letters,notebooks and memoirs in an effort to write a balanced,comprehensive study of the case'  She also says some of the crime scene photos on the web and elsewhere have been substantially re-touched. She also says some statements on the web about Sheila have been made up,but she is quoting from original records.So does this mean CAL had access to photos and statements that no one else has seen,including JB?

To her credit, Carol Ann Lee does add references, and so I have now been able to check her source for the "zombie" claim.  It appears this was an article in the Guardian, "The Bambi I Married".  Unfortunately, Carol Ann Lee does not provide the date of the article, but I expect it was contemporaneous and was written by or about Colin Caffell.  If so, that means the source for the "zombie" phrasing is Colin Caffell himself, which in my view makes it inconsequential for our purposes as he is far from an objective source and his book, while excellent, is not factual (nor does it purport to be, in fairness).  I shall have to check both editions of Mr Caffell's book to see if he uses the word there too and perhaps also contact The Guardian as the article does not appear to have been indexed online

Adam does not give a page number for Wilkes' use of the word, but again, Wilkes' source was probably Colin Caffell.

There is an outside chance that Robert W. Boutflour uses the word in his statement of 10th. September 1985, but unfortunately the 2013 thread to which Mike uploaded that statement does not include all pages of it, so I have added a request for that document to the requisitions thread I have just started.

I hope this assists.  In summary, I can't be absolutely sure at the moment, but it looks like the word has been drawn from the previous writings of Colin Caffell or an article about him.

Turning to your question about Carol Ann Lee's access to documents.  She was afforded privileged access to crime scene photographs, including photographs of the bodies of the twins.  The Campaign Team claim that she has had sight of documents denied to Jeremy Bamber.  I do not know if that is true.  I do however wonder how an ordinary author can be given access to sensitive documents and photographs and I suspect it was not Essex Police who co-operated with her, but one or more retired officers: most likely, Mike Ainsley, possibly also Ron Cook, maybe Bob Miller too (he died prior to publication).  Now I have the book in front of me, I am looking at her Acknowledgements section at the end, and Essex Police is conspicuous by its absence, but she does credit individuals, including the officers I have just mentioned.

Offline Adam

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #140 on: March 27, 2022, 02:42:PM »
To her credit, Carol Ann Lee does add references, and so I have now been able to check her source for the "zombie" claim.  It appears this was an article in the Guardian, "The Bambi I Married".  Unfortunately, Carol Ann Lee does not provide the date of the article, but I expect it was contemporaneous and was written by or about Colin Caffell.  If so, that means the source for the "zombie" phrasing is Colin Caffell himself, which in my view makes it inconsequential for our purposes as he is far from an objective source and his book, while excellent, is not factual (nor does it purport to be, in fairness).  I shall have to check both editions of Mr Caffell's book to see if he uses the word there too and perhaps also contact The Guardian as the article does not appear to have been indexed online

Adam does not give the page number for Wilkes' use of the word, but again, Wilkes' source was probably Colin Caffell.

There is an outside chance that Robert W. Boutflour uses the word in his statement of 10th. September 1985, but unfortunately the 2013 thread to which Mike uploaded that statement does not include all pages of it, so I have added a request for that document to the requisitions thread I have just started.

I hope this assists.  In summary, I can't be absolutely sure at the moment, but it look like the word has been drawn from Colin Caffell.

As for your question about Carol Ann Lee's access to documents.  She was afforded privileged access to crime scene photographs, including photographs of the bodies of the twins.  The Campaign Team claim that she has had sight of documents denied to Jeremy Bamber.  I do not know if that is true.  I do however wonder how an ordinary author can be given access to sensitive documents and photographs and I suspect it was not Essex Police who co-operated with her, but one or more retired officers: most likely, Mike Ainsley, possibly also Ron Cook, maybe Bob Miller too (he died prior to publication).  Now I have the book in front of me, I am looking at her Acknowledgements section at the end, and Essex Police is conspicuous by its absence, but she does credit individuals, including the officers I have just mentioned.

CAL & Wilkes would have got the zombie sources from PB or DB.

What has CC got to do with a phone call between Sheila & PB a few hours before Bamber committed the massacre?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 02:44:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #141 on: March 27, 2022, 02:43:PM »
I have had 'unrestricted access' to all of the 581 case photographs, which took place at 'Ewen Smiths' Birmingham office! If you do not believe me, please contact 'Ewen Smith' (a true and reliable, gentleman'). Also, thank you [most sincerely], to 'Andrew Hunter' who on several occasions invited me into his home, so that we could exchange information, to try and get to the bottom of this miscarriage of justice!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2022, 02:45:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Adam

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #142 on: March 27, 2022, 02:46:PM »
I have been told that DB gave Wilkes & CAL the zombie quote. As Gasgoigne said, there are pages missing from his WS.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #143 on: March 27, 2022, 02:47:PM »
CAL & Wilkes would have got the zombie sources from PB or DB.

What has CC got to do with a phone call between Sheila & PB a few hours before Bamber committed the massacre?

Bamber is not responsible for the so called massacre!
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

guest29835

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #144 on: March 27, 2022, 02:48:PM »
CAL & Wilkes would have got the zombie sources from PB or DB.

What has CC got to do with a phone call between Sheila & PB a few hours before Bamber committed the massacre?

I suggest you re-read what I have said, this time more carefully.  Then read page 158 of Carol Ann Lee's book, then look at reference 25 of Chapter 19 in the sources section at the back.

You will then understand that, in all probability, Carol Ann Lee's source was Colin Caffell.

I appreciate that Colin Caffell must be basing his account on a conversation he will have had with Robert W. Boutflour, but he may be basing it loosely on such a conversation, just as Robert Boutflour may have relayed only a loose gist of what Pamela Boutflour told him.  We must remember that Pamela Boutflour mentioned nothing of this in her own statements - of which there are no less than seven.

Offline Adam

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #145 on: March 27, 2022, 02:48:PM »
It is not surprising Sheila would be a zombie some of the time.

The Haloperiodal was so powerful, she had requested her dosage be reduced.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Roch

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #146 on: March 27, 2022, 02:49:PM »
I think a more pressing question is, would Adam control a fully fit Gascoigne or vice versa? Food for thought. I seem to recall Adam is big on the gym.

Offline Adam

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #147 on: March 27, 2022, 02:49:PM »
It is not surprising Sheila would be a zombie some of the time.

The Haloperiodal was so powerful, she had requested her dosage be reduced.

Bamber told Julie he was ready to strike.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #148 on: March 27, 2022, 02:53:PM »
I think a more pressing question is, would Adam control a fully fit Gascoigne or vice versa? Food for thought. I seem to recall Adam is big on the gym.

Yes I do go every 3 days. Just to keep the body hard & the heart healthy.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Bamber controlling a fully fit Sheila.
« Reply #149 on: March 27, 2022, 02:55:PM »
Bamber is not responsible for the so called massacre!


'Your truth', 'my truth', 'this'/ 'that', and 'everybody's truth', does 'NOT' prove or establish what the 'ACTUAL TRUTH', is or could be!