Liklihood of Sheila resisting during the massacre:

[lookout]

Which false fingernail Lookout?

AE found one, presumably on the bedroom floor and put it into a make-up bag.

[lookout]

Correction, after AE found the fingernail she handed it to the police according to Vidvic and Hartley ( 2014 )

[lookout]

JB never had a mark on him from those " long talons " of Sheila's ? Amazing.

[Adam]

But you've told me the prosecution case doesn't depend on Sheila being docile, so why engage in all this elaborate guesswork about circumstances you were not witness to?  She did this, she could have done that, Jeremy did this, Jeremy believed that, Sheila never did this.  How do you and Steve know all this?  Were you there?

You don't know when she did her nails or that she was sedated or docile.  Neither do I.  I merely ask how it can be that she could do her nails at all, ever, if she lacked basic motor co-ordination.  Did she just take her time?  Steve says she was dishevelled by habit.  Then why was she found clean?  Did she get herself ready specially for Jeremy, knowing he was coming? 

I think you dogmatic pro-guilt people need to get yourselves in a gridiron huddle and sort your story out.  You seem to be in a bit of muddle at the moment, changing what you say depending on the objections raised.

You are the one bringing up Sheila's painted nails.

Just saying they could have been painted, hours, days or weeks earlier.

So does not negate the WS's or crime scene evidence that Sheila was very docile.

[Adam]

Or a friend could have done them to smarten her up for the party. She wasn't into domesticity in her well state, her behaviours over the last fortnight suggest she wouldn't have done anything which would have caused them to chip.

A friend. Or June.

Going by the crime scene & Bamber's/PB's WS's, Sheila was in no state to paint nails a few hours before the massacre.

[Adam]

I'm not quite clear what the prosecution scenario could be if she is not 'docile'.  Adam seems to be saying that Jeremy was pumped-up to do it and willing to risk it.  But Sheila could have hit him or scratched him or fled or hid or anything.  Surely Sheila would have heard and been woken by the commotion with Nevill?  What about the twins?  They could wake and hide somewhere.  Much the same applies to Nevill, actually, given the way Adam posits that aspect of the scenario.

Of course, we're back to basic questions that have been discussed here at length.  The central problem with this case is that the deeper you look into it, the less safe it seems.  When a conviction is safe, it's supposed to be the other way round: i.e. when you look into it, any doubts are assuaged.  It doesn't bode well, in my view.  It's not as if we're raising bizarre or outlandish points here.  Nobody has mentioned aliens or Freemasons yet.  These are just normal points we are raising that the prosecution side can't answer and seem to get themselves into a terrible muddle over.  It does seem much more simple and straight-forward to say that Sheila murdered the other five, washed herself and killed herself.

The twins were shot first. While they slept.

[Adam]

I'm not quite clear what the prosecution scenario could be if she is not 'docile'.  Adam seems to be saying that Jeremy was pumped-up to do it and willing to risk it.  But Sheila could have hit him or scratched him or fled or hid or anything.  Surely Sheila would have heard and been woken by the commotion with Nevill?  What about the twins?  They could wake and hide somewhere.  Much the same applies to Nevill, actually, given the way Adam posits that aspect of the scenario.

Of course, we're back to basic questions that have been discussed here at length.  The central problem with this case is that the deeper you look into it, the less safe it seems.  When a conviction is safe, it's supposed to be the other way round: i.e. when you look into it, any doubts are assuaged.  It doesn't bode well, in my view.  It's not as if we're raising bizarre or outlandish points here.  Nobody has mentioned aliens or Freemasons yet.  These are just normal points we are raising that the prosecution side can't answer and seem to get themselves into a terrible muddle over.  It does seem much more simple and straight-forward to say that Sheila murdered the other five, washed herself and killed herself.

Bamber was prepared to take that risk.

He was fully clothed so scratching/hitting would not hurt him.

Fled or hid? More like slept through it.

[Adam]

I'm not quite clear what the prosecution scenario could be if she is not 'docile'.  Adam seems to be saying that Jeremy was pumped-up to do it and willing to risk it.  But Sheila could have hit him or scratched him or fled or hid or anything.  Surely Sheila would have heard and been woken by the commotion with Nevill?  What about the twins?  They could wake and hide somewhere.  Much the same applies to Nevill, actually, given the way Adam posits that aspect of the scenario.

Of course, we're back to basic questions that have been discussed here at length.  The central problem with this case is that the deeper you look into it, the less safe it seems.  When a conviction is safe, it's supposed to be the other way round: i.e. when you look into it, any doubts are assuaged.  It doesn't bode well, in my view.  It's not as if we're raising bizarre or outlandish points here.  Nobody has mentioned aliens or Freemasons yet.  These are just normal points we are raising that the prosecution side can't answer and seem to get themselves into a terrible muddle over.  It does seem much more simple and straight-forward to say that Sheila murdered the other five, washed herself and killed herself.

The commotion was downstairs & over quickly.

Sheila was asleep upstairs behind thick walls & doors. Very docile from the Haloperiodal. 

[Adam]

The commotion was downstairs & over quickly.

Sheila was asleep upstairs behind thick walls & doors. Very docile from the Haloperiodal.

Although possible Sheila woke.

Bamber would just have to deal with the situation.

If she did wake, there are no signs of a struggle.

[Adam]

Supporters have the twins running around & hiding. Sheila scratching, hitting, hiding or running away.

It was a silent massacre at around 2am. Bamber would not be expecting any of that.

Only Nevill put up resistance & that was only after he had been shot 4 times.

[guest29835]

You are the one bringing up Sheila's painted nails.

Just saying they could have been painted, hours, days or weeks earlier.

So does not negate the WS's or crime scene evidence that Sheila was very docile.

There is no such evidence.  It's just invented in your imagination.

[Rob_]

Supporters have the twins running around & hiding. Sheila scratching, hitting, hiding or running away.

It was a silent massacre at around 2am. Bamber would not be expecting any of that.

Only Nevill put up resistance & that was only after he had been shot 4 times.

Adam you have forgotten Crispy! He would have made one hell of a racket as JB clambered through the window 

[lookout]

Adam you have forgotten Crispy! He would have made one hell of a racket as JB clambered through the window 

As well as biting his ankles. Didn't JB once backheel the dog for snapping at him ?

[lookout]

I firmly believe that Crispy would have been the first victim had it been Jeremy. Well you would shoot it if you were that way inclined. Who'd want a dog running amok yapping and snapping at you ?
Afterall, what's an old dog against 5 humans ?
 I wouldn't have thought it mattered to one with psychopathic tendencies.

[Adam]

Crispy was not a guard dog. Dogs do also sleep.

People have said Crispy slept with Nevill & June. This is supported by him being found in the main bedroom.

In that case, Crispy was behind closed doors & thick walls as Bamber entered & went upstairs.

So unlikely to hear anything or bark if he did. Crispy would know Sheila & two children were staying.