Liklihood of Sheila resisting during the massacre:

[Jane]

Well isnt that what he meant by ----part of her general and disturbed mental state-----Wasnt this reffering to her psychosis Jane?

It seems to be what you've been persuaded to believe.

[Adam]

It seems to be what you've been persuaded to believe.

Snow was not able to create a Sheila scenario.

Just created lots of unlikely events not supported by evidence.

However they were supported by Snow's dozens of 'maybe's'!

[Adam]

Sheila 'maybe' scratching Bamber?

How did he summon up the courage? The reward was only hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Not sure how Sheila could scratch Bamber.

He would have started the massacre fully clothed & wearing gloves. He may have also had face protection.

So not something that would deter Bamber or that he would have thought about.

[snow66!]

It seems to be what you've been persuaded to believe.

Hi Jane.Just let me try and clarify what i was trying to say.Adam thinks she was withdrawn and had no interest because of the Haloperidol.I was simply trying to prove this was not so,and i think to a fair degree i have.Whether it was depression or Sheilas schizophrenia setting in that caused her to be withdrawn,who knows.But it seems it was not side effects of her medication anyway.Dont you agree?

[Jane]

Hi Jane.Just let me try and clarify what i was trying to say.Adam thinks she was withdrawn and had no interest because of the Haloperidol.I was simply trying to prove this was not so,and i think to a fair degree i have.Whether it was depression or Sheilas schizophrenia setting in that caused her to be withdrawn,who knows.But it seems it was not side effects of her medication anyway.Dont you agree?

Are you saying you don't believe that Haloperidol, despite being recognized as having a sedative effect, wasn't a contributory factor? I have long believed that counselling, more than drugs, would have been better for her, but depression and schizophrenia require different approaches. I've had no direct contact with schizophrenics, but I've had occasion to work with mothers of. In all cases, the controlled illness has returned after they've stopped taking their medication. I can only go by what the tox report says, ie Sheila was adequately and theraputically medicated. To try to claim other is just splitting hairs for the sake of it.

[Adam]

Are you saying you don't believe that Haloperidol, despite being recognized as having a sedative effect, wasn't a contributory factor? I have long believed that counselling, more than drugs, would have been better for her, but depression and schizophrenia require different approaches. I've had no direct contact with schizophrenics, but I've had occasion to work with mothers of. In all cases, the controlled illness has returned after they've stopped taking their medication. I can only go by what the tox report says, ie Sheila was adequately and theraputically medicated. To try to claim other is just splitting hairs for the sake of it.

Both supporters & guilters agree Haloperiodal has sedative effects. As well many other side effects such as being uncordinated. It is a very powerful drug.

To determine Sheila's condition on the night, everyone has to go by the WS's & crime scene evidence.

[Adam]

Both supporters & guilters agree Haloperiodal has sedative effects. As well many other side effects such as being uncordinated. It is a very powerful drug.

To determine Sheila's condition on the night, everyone has to go by the WS's & crime scene evidence.

These suggest Sheila put up minimal or no resistance. Either the sedative effects or other side effects were working on her.

Or Sheila simply didn't resist.

[snow66!]

Are you saying you don't believe that Haloperidol, despite being recognized as having a sedative effect, wasn't a contributory factor? I have long believed that counselling, more than drugs, would have been better for her, but depression and schizophrenia require different approaches. I've had no direct contact with schizophrenics, but I've had occasion to work with mothers of. In all cases, the controlled illness has returned after they've stopped taking their medication. I can only go by what the tox report says, ie Sheila was adequately and theraputically medicated. To try to claim other is just splitting hairs for the sake of it.

Sorry Jane,i dont know what more to say.Maybe i dont make the points of my posts very clear,or what i am trying to get at.

[snow66!]

These suggest Sheila put up minimal or no resistance. Either the sedative effects or other side effects were working on her.

Or Sheila simply didn't resist.

Or just maybe there was no one left for her to give resistance Adam.Simple.

[Jane]

Sorry Jane,i dont know what more to say.Maybe i dont make the points of my posts very clear,or what i am trying to get at.

I hear what you're saying, Snow. Now! Do I believe the scientific facts, or do I believe you?

[Jane]

Snow was not able to create a Sheila scenario.

Just created lots of unlikely events not supported by evidence.

However they were supported by Snow's dozens of 'maybe's'!

Despite what the tox report says, ie statement of facts, supporters and those who simply wish to argue points for the arguments' sake, simply offer "what if's" and "maybe's" and "supposing's", none of which is more than their interpretation of fact, not evidential.

[Jane]

Both supporters & guilters agree Haloperiodal has sedative effects. As well many other side effects such as being uncordinated. It is a very powerful drug.

To determine Sheila's condition on the night, everyone has to go by the WS's & crime scene evidence.

Wow!! You could have fooled me, Adam. I thought they were trying to deny that. I agree that all there is to go by is crime scene evidence and WS's. Everything else is supposition. We only have JB's version of what happened from the time he went into the farm-house kitchen for supper.

[snow66!]

I hear what you're saying, Snow. Now! Do I believe the scientific facts, or do I believe you?

But i simply quoted what it said in witness statements Jane.Anne Eaton,Colin Caffell and Dr Ferguson.It was their words,not mine.

[snow66!]

It seems to be what you've been persuaded to believe.

What do you mean persuaded Jane,by whom?

[Jane]

But i simply quoted what it said in witness statements Jane.Anne Eaton,Colin Caffell and Dr Ferguson.It was their words,not mine.

Without checking, I'm not certain when Ann made the comments you claim. Did you leave out anything she may have said regarding Sheila being in hospital? She certainly had no idea that Sheila was visiting the farm. They weren't close due to age gap and life-style. On one occasion when Sheila attempted to engage Ann in conversation, Ann made excuses and left.

I can't imagine Colin talking about Sheila as being upbeat and happy latterly, although she definitely had been when she met with her biological mother. I'd like to think that was about more than just Haloperidol keeping her on a even keel.

You've put words in Dr Ferguson's mouth, and applied a meaning to them which seem closer to your beliefs than his.