EXPERTS? NOT ON THIS CASE, THEY ARE NOT?

[Parky41]

Experts? Not on the Luke Mitchell case they are not. It's not an automatic given, being an expert in their field (couple of them), does not equate to being an expert on the Mitchell case.

Bias upon bias - It is empty. These professionals, given answer to questions asked in such a way to illicit the correct response means nothing, it is empty of context:

"In the Mitchell murder trial, we are not and have not been privy to everything that was led in evidence, nor have we seen every shred of it and heard every word of testimony."     

https://thescotslawblog.com/2021/03/01/unravelling-corroboration-and-circumstantial-evidence/

Those professionals that "really should know better" for those reasons that are blatantly obvious.

Then of course the pretend ones (That flood social media etc...), those who put themselves out as being such when they are anything but. Doctors, dentist, psychiatrists, criminologists and the like?

9 weeks of not hearing/seeing/witnessing testimony first hand - with only a % of each days proceedings relayed in the press. And one does use the media, the ever so accurate media as ones proof, her source? In the exact same fashion as "No Smoke" does one not? Having access to whatever is contained in Mitchells defence papers, and that close collaboration with this murderer, is just that "close collaboration" Alas "none so blind as those who will not see"

She is not only spelling out her case for you, if one takes the time to read wording over inference she is telling you a hell of a lot more. Dave2 is spot on. Never had access to the case papers, the actual truth of the murder of this girl. Never had access to full court transcripts, did not sit through Mitchells trial and as above, knows only a fraction of what was put before that Jury. And if one relied upon Mitchell for information, then one (as per) was clearly lying to her. Does not know vital areas of evidence, such as the precise reason as to why that agreement was made - perhaps one does of course, it certainly pays to play dumb. Feeds one 12 pages of absolute nonsense around mobile phones belonging to the Jones family, but could not tell you that AO has testified at trial? - This "close collaboration" with her very own two "key witnesses"

SL is NOT an expert on the case of LM V HMA, that is simple fact. Has never had access to near enough of anything to have that title applied to her. Can not put any ? around what was before that Jury, when one does not know the full extent of everything put before them. Touts out this nonsense repeatedly about those emergency calls, she has never heard them, she tells you that one does not have them, or had them. These were played at Mitchells trial, and there he was with that "flat affect" voice, matter of fact as you like. With those who were in shock with the horror of it all, screaming in the background!

Outstanding work from the experts answering those selective questions, who would have thought that the murderer "would have to have been covered so as not to get blood upon them" - No shit!

[Germane]

I don’t think it was a premeditated murder. No hazmat suit, no
gloves, no balaclavas ... no preplanning. LM, imo, lost it and went into a uncontrollable rage. The parka was likely slightly blood-stained, or likely had some incriminating dna from jodj on it. Forensically aware Luke knew this and made sure it was disposed of, like his skunting knife with the brown handle that still hasn’t been found to this day.

[Davie2]

Great post Parky.

[nugnug]

well what would forenic seintists know compare to you  lot.

[Fairplay1]

Okay Parky we got it you don't like Dr Lean as you have spent years slandering and character assignation on this lady which is more telling me about you,very messy .  So tell me the Professor who examined Jodi body who gave expert opinion at trial is he and all the others that are mentioned either in the BBC Frontline Doc aired 2 years after the conviction who show their names and faces IN SUPPORT of this miscarriage they are all deemed by Mr Parky from the Internet as being  frauds, you need to catch a grip.

Who are you Parky that some (Dave and germane)people on this forum seem to lap up your novels of pure and utter opinion.
Have you written a book yet to support the guilty verdict?
Did you go to the trial every day ?
Have you got access to defence information of this case via Luke Mitchell ?

Look let me be clear I have very straightforward reasons for wanting a public Enquiry into this case and it's not just because of one person.

1. The police investigation was seriously flawed now Sandra leans book only supports this as it is all out there.
Within the first few hours of Jodi being found their is serious incompetent actions that lead me to this -:
The victim not covered, the clothes gathered up in a hap hazard way which led to  cross contamination, body left out all night in the elements. Bins not cancelled, school and area not cordoned off.  This next one screams incompetence , bleaching the scene BEFORE the dogs get there, wtf is that type of decision making.  ( forgive me Parky but your just a bod of the Internet pal you ain't no expert, although it is clear you have serious delusions of grandeur with these novels you type). I could go on about that police investigation but I feel embarrassed for them and for people like you who stand up in support of what must be one of the worst investigations of that time.  Let's not go into the deplorable and outrageous behaviour of thes adults as the Judges have already stated it was beyond unprofessional.

2 Luke Mitchell trial was beyond unfair to any normal fair minded person, I can't say much more about that as we all know the media attack on one family again Sandra only supports this in the book ,  talk of Devils and satans and dogs hanging from the house porch, they done a complete hatchet-job on this teenager and I believe that is wrong , he never had a chance with the media attention
pre trial , your not a fair person if u can not see the bias to this young lad !

3. The forensic information in this case leaves me with more questions than answers and I strongly believe we need this fully circumstantial case revisted esp with regards to this area we need some clarity. I can't understand why their is still profiles on a victims body that as yet no named assigned to it , you see this it for me . How can you truefully be happy with this verdict when the REAL evidence ( not these wisheywashy changing statements that's all too far gone for me , simply I want to know why their is body fluid on Jodi body and clothes with unidentified male profiles which of course can not be attributed to Luke or it god damn would have been used , but who knows it maybe down again to that completely unsatisfactory police work again and maybe they will get incriminating evidence to support conviction this time , I don't know their are serious questions around this area of what is normally the best type of evidence compared to other cases of that time and after , it simply needs looked at with some conclusive results .

Why are you okay about the forensic anomalies in this case , don't you think it's right to scientifically check they got the right guy.  All these years popping up on all sorts of forums with your opinions and slanderous and rude comments towards a woman ( who may have made mistakes) who's only crime is pointing out the many flaws and only agenda is to get to the truth, whilst you Parky continue to protect standby and support a police investigation that was deplorable on so many levels, this will come back to bite you in the butt but don't worry unlike Sandra Lean and allll the credible experts that publicly put their name to this well you can just change your name as you have done nothing publicly. I salute people like Sandra who work hard to bring these very sensitive matters to the floor, you old Parky are no more credible than your buddy Dave you just another bod on a computer

[Germane]

Okay Parky we got it you don't like Dr Lean as you have spent years slandering and character assignation on this lady which is more telling me about you,very messy .  So tell me the Professor who examined Jodi body who gave expert opinion at trial is he and all the others that are mentioned either in the BBC Frontline Doc aired 2 years after the conviction who show their names and faces IN SUPPORT of this miscarriage they are all deemed by Mr Parky from the Internet as being  frauds, you need to catch a grip.

Who are you Parky that some (Dave and germane)people on this forum seem to lap up your novels of pure and utter opinion.
Have you written a book yet to support the guilty verdict?
Did you go to the trial every day ?
Have you got access to defence information of this case via Luke Mitchell ?

Look let me be clear I have very straightforward reasons for wanting a public Enquiry into this case and it's not just because of one person.

1. The police investigation was seriously flawed now Sandra leans book only supports this as it is all out there.
Within the first few hours of Jodi being found their is serious incompetent actions that lead me to this -:
The victim not covered, the clothes gathered up in a hap hazard way which led to  cross contamination, body left out all night in the elements. Bins not cancelled, school and area not cordoned off.  This next one screams incompetence , bleaching the scene BEFORE the dogs get there, wtf is that type of decision making.  ( forgive me Parky but your just a bod of the Internet pal you ain't no expert, although it is clear you have serious delusions of grandeur with these novels you type). I could go on about that police investigation but I feel embarrassed for them and for people like you who stand up in support of what must be one of the worst investigations of that time.  Let's not go into the deplorable and outrageous behaviour of thes adults as the Judges have already stated it was beyond unprofessional.

2 Luke Mitchell trial was beyond unfair to any normal fair minded person, I can't say much more about that as we all know the media attack on one family again Sandra only supports this in the book ,  talk of Devils and satans and dogs hanging from the house porch, they done a complete hatchet-job on this teenager and I believe that is wrong , he never had a chance with the media attention
pre trial , your not a fair person if u can not see the bias to this young lad !

3. The forensic information in this case leaves me with more questions than answers and I strongly believe we need this fully circumstantial case revisted esp with regards to this area we need some clarity. I can't understand why their is still profiles on a victims body that as yet no named assigned to it , you see this it for me . How can you truefully be happy with this verdict when the REAL evidence ( not these wish you washy changing statements that's all too far gone for me , simply I want to know why their is body fluid on Jodi body and clothes with unidentified male profiles which of course can not be attributed to Luke or it god damn would have been used , but who knows it maybe down again to that completely unsatisfactory police work again and maybe they will get incriminating evidence to support conviction this time , I don't know their are serious questions around this area of what is normally the best type of evidence compared to other cases of that time and after , it simply needs looked at with some conclusive results .

Why are you okay about the forensic anomalies in this case , don't you think it's right to scientifically check they got the right guy.  All these years popping up on all sorts of forums with your opinions and slanderous and rude comments towards a woman ( who may have made mistakes) who's only crime is pointing out the many flaws and only agenda is to get to the truth, whilst you Parky continue to protect standby and support a police investigation that was deplorable on so many levels, this will come back to bite you in the butt but don't worry unlike Sandra Lean and allll the credible experts that publicly put their name to this well you can just change your name as you have done nothing publicly. I salute people like Sandra who work hard to bring these very sensitive matters to the floor, you old Parky are no more credible than your buddy Dave you just another bod on a computer

You raise some valid points, and I, too, would welcome an independent inquiry and a full review into the entire case, including the forensics. The forensics are indeed quite anomalous, but because I am so swayed by the other circumstantial evidence, it leads me to conclude that LM got lucky with the forensics (i.e. that, because the the soc was so wet, bloody, and the fact the body lay exposed the heavy rainfall and elements for 8 hours, vital incriminating forensic evidence was lost).

As regards ‘lapping up Parky41’s novels’, please. I won’t deign to respond to that one! But, I must concede, a lot of what the aforementioned forum member types up does make a whole lot of sense to me and, for the
most part, I agree with it.

[Fairplay1]

You could be right Germane maybe he got lucky but SK and all that other evidence found even after the rain, even after the poor crime scene management and this guys sperm survives a washing cycle , rain.  And what about the other sperm, hair saliva all found in spite of the rain yet it yeilds no reportable result, I simply find that questionable and like you feel it is reasonable to have this very important area clarified.

The police investigation was not just poor it was seriously impacted by the investigators bias , I actually believe because they put all their eggs in to Mitchell basket from early on they lost potential evidence and made some seriously bad mistakes. I am not going to forgive these mistakes or somehow brush under the carpet as if it had no consequence.  Every Miscarriage usually starts with a very poor investigation , I have researched and their is some real patterns within certain police investigations that should make us all question esp when it comes to circumstantial cases like this one. 

I understand the case is compelling in areas against Mitchell but it's the evidence that is missing that brings me to the conclusion and literally can not see any progress until the forensic evidence is properly reexamined.

My apologies , that was not appropriate for me to tag you as some type of follower of Mr Parky as you are more than capable of coming to your own opinion and have every right to support who ever.

I have no issue with Mr Parky or Prof Dave but they always reduce the debate to their hate of Sandra Lean and anyone else that opposes their opinion, I don't support these tactics. When they don't like a reasonable question ie forensics( at least you have intelligence to accept this area needs clarification) they resort to name calling and Sandra bashing sad really as I do believe Parky does bring some reasonable debate but try and find a comment where some Sandra bashing isn't happening will be hard and that just tells me they have lost the argument when they have to resort to name calling etc , just my opinion

I'm glad at least we are on the same page with an Enquiry if for nothing else it will bring some type of resolve for all

[Davie2]

So tell me the Professor who examined Jodi body who gave expert opinion at trial is he and all the others that are mentioned either in the BBC Frontline Doc

Has he or has he not put his name to the "Luke is innocent campaign?" Simple question.

Who are you Parky that some (Dave and germane)people on this forum seem to lap up your novels of pure and utter opinion.

Is that a crime?

Have you written a book yet to support the guilty verdict?

What's your screen handle on the red forum?

Did you go to the trial every day ?

Was Lean there?

Look let me be clear I have very straightforward reasons for wanting a public Enquiry into this case and it's not just because of one person.

You be nice and clear now.

1. The police investigation was seriously flawed now Sandra leans book only supports this as it is all out there.

Ah, I see. So let's see what is out there, provide your sources. Remember now, we don't want any of SL content. It seems like you get very triggered by the mere mention of her name, so what else is there out there. Goodluck.

2 Luke Mitchell trial was beyond unfair.

You wasn't there.

3. The forensic information in this case leaves me with more questions than answers

The answers are there, you just refuse to believe them.

Parky are no more credible than your buddy Dave you just another bod on a computer

Name-calling huh? Not for the first time, either. lol.

[lilly15]

You could be right Germane maybe he got lucky but SK and all that other evidence found even after the rain, even after the poor crime scene management and this guys sperm survives a washing cycle , rain.  And what about the other sperm, hair saliva all found in spite of the rain yet it yeilds no reportable result, I simply find that questionable and like you feel it is reasonable to have this very important area clarified.

The police investigation was not just poor it was seriously impacted by the investigators bias , I actually believe because they put all their eggs in to Mitchell basket from early on they lost potential evidence and made some seriously bad mistakes. I am not going to forgive these mistakes or somehow brush under the carpet as if it had no consequence.  Every Miscarriage usually starts with a very poor investigation , I have researched and their is some real patterns within certain police investigations that should make us all question esp when it comes to circumstantial cases like this one. 

I understand the case is compelling in areas against Mitchell but it's the evidence that is missing that brings me to the conclusion and literally can not see any progress until the forensic evidence is properly reexamined.

My apologies , that was not appropriate for me to tag you as some type of follower of Mr Parky as you are more than capable of coming to your own opinion and have every right to support who ever.

I have no issue with Mr Parky or Prof Dave but they always reduce the debate to their hate of Sandra Lean and anyone else that opposes their opinion, I don't support these tactics. When they don't like a reasonable question ie forensics( at least you have intelligence to accept this area needs clarification) they resort to name calling and Sandra bashing sad really as I do believe Parky does bring some reasonable debate but try and find a comment where some Sandra bashing isn't happening will be hard and that just tells me they have lost the argument when they have to resort to name calling etc , just my opinion

I'm glad at least we are on the same page with an Enquiry if for nothing else it will bring some type of resolve for all

Very well and politely said

[Germane]

Fairplay1 — SL at one point in time thought Luke to be guilty. Do you know why she initially held this view and why she changed her mind? Does anyone on here know? Just curious.

[Fairplay1]

Has he or has he not put his name to the "Luke is innocent campaign?" Simple question.

Is that a crime?

What's your screen handle on the red forum?

Was Lean there?


You be nice and clear now.


Ah, I see. So let's see what is out there, provide your sources. Remember now, we don't want any of SL content. It seems like you get very triggered by the mere mention of her name, so what else is there out there. Goodluck.

You wasn't there.

The answers are there, you just refuse to believe them.

Name-calling huh? Not for the first time, either. lol.

Tell me Dave what are the answers when it comes to the forensic analysis in this case , I must be missing this so what does it answer for you that I'm just missing , I will await your reply ...

Seems you are the one who is triggered with the mention of Sandra lean going by this post reply , it's okay I'm not expecting you to address my question but if u can that would be super

So according to you I must only reach an opinion if I went to the trial every day, wonder how other Miscarriages are researched , is it only people that go to a trial that should have a say .  That's not life Dave the passage of time will bring information to the wider public ie Police Investigation incompetency , do you really want me to list the errors that has been documented as fact but much like DI Dobbie he thinks it's one of the finest crime scenes he's worked, are you sure your not Dobbie lol , as you seem a little protective of that police investigation which I find very questionable.

As I say I want an Enquiry , I'm not asking for the key to turn and let Luke be free I am asking for an Enquiry into that investigation and proper explainable forensic analysis , that's it I don't care less about anything else but resolve for all , and Enquiry will lead to that .

[Davie2]

Tell me Dave what are the answers when it comes to the forensic analysis in this case , I must be missing this so what does it answer for you that I'm just missing , I will await your reply ...

You want answers, but don't want to answer questions. If you want to get anywhere with me, go back and answer the questions i have asked of you. Then we might be able to have a grown up debate, but while you insult, ignore questions and just go off on some rant, then you cannot be taken seriously. 

Seems you are the one who is triggered with the mention of Sandra lean going by this post reply , it's okay I'm not expecting you to address my question but if u can that would be super

The fact of the matter is, she is your source of information, or should I say, misinformation.

So according to you I must only reach an opinion if I went to the trial every day

Works both way's right?

Police Investigation incompetency , do you really want me to list the errors that has been documented as fact but much like DI Dobbie he thinks it's one of the finest crime scenes he's worked, are you sure your not Dobbie lol , as you seem a little protective of that police investigation which I find very questionable.

Can you provide a hard copy of this police investigation, you seem to be privy to the in and outs of how they went about things, remember, don't want you to get triggered, so anything non SL related will be fine.

As I say I want an Enquiry , I'm not asking for the key to turn and let Luke be free I am asking for an Enquiry into that investigation and proper explainable forensic analysis , that's it I don't care less about anything else but resolve for all , and Enquiry will lead to that .

There has already been an enquiry, how many enquiries do you want? There will be no-more public money, so who is funding it? Who is going to conduct it? Is the forensics still available? The case is closed, they tend to dispose of the stuff.

[Fairplay1]

Fairplay1 — SL at one point in time thought Luke to be guilty. Do you know why she initially held this view and why she changed her mind? Does anyone on here know? Just curious.

As far as I'm aware she just started to question the narrative being played out and started to dig deeper and then was Luke's POA so got access to his side of the coin.  I feel Sandra brings some valid points that are actually supported once you start to dig.  I just don't accept that this lady would go through all the abuse and hate for nothing. As she has pointed out she has her own daughters why would she want to put a killer out amongst her daughters, that just doesn't make any sense to me.

I too probably thought Luke was guilty but not because I had researched shamefully because I just believed what the papers said without question, I actually thought the media had to work by some type of moral code of telling the truth , but I was wrong and strongly believe they are part accountable for this circus but I'm hopeful that lessons will be learnt once the Enquiry gets under way we can as a society put this right , if for nothing else for Jodi and her family they need to address the areas that give most people concern ie the scientific evidence must be reexamined just to be sure it's the right thing to do for all .

[Fairplay1]

You want answers, but don't want to answer questions. If you want to get anywhere with me, go back and answer the questions i have asked of you. Then we might be able to have a grown up debate, but while you insult, ignore questions and just go off on some rant, then you cannot be taken seriously. 


The fact of the matter is, she is your source of information, or should I say, misinformation.


Works both way's right?

I hope they don't get rid , I may be corrected but I believe they must retain evidence for a certain amount of time.

The criminal justice system as proved time and time again  it takes  years and years to take accountability it's the nature of their business, and egos will be bashed but it's not a perfect system things can go wrong. With new areas of development within Forensic Science and what these exceptionally brilliant people can find at a crime scene is always improving and should be used even for clarification purposes on a case like this, just my opinion

How much to spend on ensuring a murderer is off our streets, well maybe we should ask the victims of Robert Napper who was allowed to roam the streets whilst a bias police investigating tried to build a circumstantial case against a totally innocent man. 

First thing we have to accept is the system can get it wrong , sometimes the police investigation goes the wrong way and like we have seen with other cases they get it wrong.

Everything with regards to that police investigation and the incompetence is out there Dave , you will see some of it in the Appeal Documents and even the mainstream media.  I can't pluck the investigation report out my butt Dave but for god sake just research it , you don't even have to rely on Sandra Leans word as I know that's a big no no for you , just check out all those Initial critical  decisions by the lead investigator , are you telling me you are unaware of failures with regards to the crime scene .  This case  will never be an example of a good criminal investigation to use for training of new Detectives, this will be e one they will use to train their police what NOT to do.

[Davie2]

So you are not going to address any questions?

I hope they don't get rid , I may be corrected but I believe they must retain evidence for a certain amount of time.

Maybe it is best you find out. lol.

Forensic Science and what these exceptionally brilliant people can find at a crime scene is always improving and should be used even for clarification purposes on a case like this, just my opinion

How many times do you want this done? Einstein once said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

First thing we have to accept is the system can get it wrong , sometimes the police investigation goes the wrong way and like we have seen with other cases they get it wrong.

Could not agree more, but that logic also applies to self-proclaimed criminologists. I will use your own words here

like we have seen with other cases they get it wrong

I can't pluck the investigation report out my butt Dave but for god sake just research it

I know, you can't. I know who your source is.

are you telling me you are unaware of failures with regards to the crime scene

What failures, source them out for me. And remember, we don't want you all triggered, so anything non SL related will suffice.