Sheilas Two Shots

[snow66!]

Hello everyone,hope your well.I would like togive my opinion on the death of sheila,in particular the angle of the two shots.The official police scenario.or one of them at least,has Sheila RUSHING to the box room door to get to the twins,after she sees what has happened to June.Once JB re-enters the bedroom,he shoots June and Sheils freezes.JB forces Sheila down beside the bed and shoots her in the neck.Thats the official scenario.So lets take it from there.What position was sheilas body in when the non fatal shot was fired.I have determined that if Sheila was lying flat on the floor,the rifle was about 80 degrees in relation,or even vertical if Sheilas head was tilted back.That surprised me.How could JB hold Sheila dwwn with the rifle  straight up and down?With his foot i would imagine.Any footprints found on her chest? Still we are told she was frozen stiff,so no need.What if JB forced her to sit up with her body folded at 90 degrees,well the rifle would obviously be nearer horizontal.That is Sheilas upper body rotated by 90 degrees,give or take if her head is tilted forward or back.Hope you are following.Ok the question is why did JB shoot her at this angle if she was frozen stiff? Why didnt he lay her flat shove the rifle under her chin,and point it up into her head.The angle of the rifle was off by almost 90 degrees for this to happen when the shot was fired.This shot was of the uttmost importace if his plan was to succeed,this was THE shot he HAD to get right.Why was he off by so much,the second went straight into her brain.Even if Sheila WAS struggling[no chipped nails mind] he knew the rifle had to be almost parrallel with Sheilas body for the shot to go up into her brain.Even if Sheila did try and push away the gun as he fired,it would be the barrel,not the stock of the rifle,which could change the angle of the shot.The first shot just dosent make sense to me if JB is guilty.Did he think one shot to the throat would be enough after shooting everyone else several times in the skull.A bullet used for shooting VERMIN.So let us see what would have happened if Sheila commited suictde.In my opinion Sheila HAD to be seated upright for the non fatal shot with her head slightly tucked in,probably with her knees up.It would be almost impossible lying on her back,as the rifle would be almost vertical,going by the angle of the wound.Check it out.Even sitting stock of the rifle would be 18-24 inches off the floor.So Sheila fires the first shot,and must have slipped down,possibly involuntarily through muscle spasms.As her body slips down,the weight of her body holds her night dress in place causing it to ruck up.Anyway Sheila had to be fairly flat to fire the fatal shot,we know by the angle.Otherwise the rifle would have to be down through the floor boards.Check out the angle of the shots.Sheile almost certainly had to be sitting[or possibly lying on her side]for the non fatal shot,and had to be lying down for the fatal one.If JB shot Sheila,why on earth did he misjudge the non fatal wound by so much.Also worth mentioning,both shots were fired from Sheilas right side,not straight on as it were.Does this suggest the rifle was angled over to Sheilas right hand? Do other suicides show the weapon angled to the dominant hand? Why would JB fire both shots at a slight angle,instead of straight on,running parallel to Sheilas body,looking from above as it were.Awkward standing?Anyway hope you understand all this.Check out the angles of the two shots,with the illustrations in the crime scene photos for your self,and see what YOU conclude.You will need a protractor to measure the angles.Hope you understand all this,maybe Dave can help with some of his animated illustrations.Well i hope this has been of interest to you,all the best.Bye for now.

[snow66!]

In case i didnt make it clear,the non fatal shot was at roughly 80 degrees ,meaning the bullet would enter the neck and simply exit at the back of the neck,had it gone straight thruough.It wasnt headed anywhere near the brain.The fatal shot was about 25 degrees off the body ,and went straight up into the brain at a slight angle.

[snow66!]

Going by my measurements of the angles anyway.

[snow66!]

Why would JB fire the first shot at that angle.What on earth could he have been thinking about?

[snow66!]

And think about this,if Sheila was sitting when she fired the first shot,she had to slip down pretty quick or else the blood would have run right down the front of her dress.If not someone would have had to pull her down almost immediatelly.

[snow66!]

It should have been very simple for JB to aim the first shot into sheilas brain,looking down the barrel.Sheila on the other hand would have had difficulty judging the correct angle,as well as stretching to reach the trigger,but once she was flat on her back ,the second shot would automatically go up into her brain.Make sense?

[killingeve]

Hello everyone,hope your well.I would like togive my opinion on the death of sheila,in particular the angle of the two shots.The official police scenario.or one of them at least,has Sheila RUSHING to the box room door to get to the twins,after she sees what has happened to June.Once JB re-enters the bedroom,he shoots June and Sheils freezes.JB forces Sheila down beside the bed and shoots her in the neck.Thats the official scenario.So lets take it from there.What position was sheilas body in when the non fatal shot was fired.I have determined that if Sheila was lying flat on the floor,the rifle was about 80 degrees in relation,or even vertical if Sheilas head was tilted back.That surprised me.How could JB hold Sheila dwwn with the rifle  straight up and down?With his foot i would imagine.Any footprints found on her chest? Still we are told she was frozen stiff,so no need.What if JB forced her to sit up with her body folded at 90 degrees,well the rifle would obviously be nearer horizontal.That is Sheilas upper body rotated by 90 degrees,give or take if her head is tilted forward or back.Hope you are following.Ok the question is why did JB shoot her at this angle if she was frozen stiff? Why didnt he lay her flat shove the rifle under her chin,and point it up into her head.The angle of the rifle was off by almost 90 degrees for this to happen when the shot was fired.This shot was of the uttmost importace if his plan was to succeed,this was THE shot he HAD to get right.Why was he off by so much,the second went straight into her brain.Even if Sheila WAS struggling[no chipped nails mind] he knew the rifle had to be almost parrallel with Sheilas body for the shot to go up into her brain.Even if Sheila did try and push away the gun as he fired,it would be the barrel,not the stock of the rifle,which could change the angle of the shot.The first shot just dosent make sense to me if JB is guilty.Did he think one shot to the throat would be enough after shooting everyone else several times in the skull.A bullet used for shooting VERMIN.So let us see what would have happened if Sheila commited suictde.In my opinion Sheila HAD to be seated upright for the non fatal shot with her head slightly tucked in,probably with her knees up.It would be almost impossible lying on her back,as the rifle would be almost vertical,going by the angle of the wound.Check it out.Even sitting stock of the rifle would be 18-24 inches off the floor.So Sheila fires the first shot,and must have slipped down,possibly involuntarily through muscle spasms.As her body slips down,the weight of her body holds her night dress in place causing it to ruck up.Anyway Sheila had to be fairly flat to fire the fatal shot,we know by the angle.Otherwise the rifle would have to be down through the floor boards.Check out the angle of the shots.Sheile almost certainly had to be sitting[or possibly lying on her side]for the non fatal shot,and had to be lying down for the fatal one.If JB shot Sheila,why on earth did he misjudge the non fatal wound by so much.Also worth mentioning,both shots were fired from Sheilas right side,not straight on as it were.Does this suggest the rifle was angled over to Sheilas right hand? Do other suicides show the weapon angled to the dominant hand? Why would JB fire both shots at a slight angle,instead of straight on,running parallel to Sheilas body,looking from above as it were.Awkward standing?Anyway hope you understand all this.Check out the angles of the two shots,with the illustrations in the crime scene photos for your self,and see what YOU conclude.You will need a protractor to measure the angles.Hope you understand all this,maybe Dave can help with some of his animated illustrations.Well i hope this has been of interest to you,all the best.Bye for now.

There is no 'official scenario'.

147. The precise sequence of the killings was unclear. June Bamber was shot whilst still lying in bed but had managed to get up and walk a few steps before she collapsed and died by the main bedroom door. Nevill Bamber was also shot in the bedroom but was able to get downstairs into the kitchen where there was a violent struggle before he was overwhelmed and then shot a number of times in the head. The children had been shot in their beds as they slept.

148. Sheila Caffell, probably in a sedated state from her medication, was also shot in the bedroom.

[snow66!]

There is no 'official scenario'.

147. The precise sequence of the killings was unclear. June Bamber was shot whilst still lying in bed but had managed to get up and walk a few steps before she collapsed and died by the main bedroom door. Nevill Bamber was also shot in the bedroom but was able to get downstairs into the kitchen where there was a violent struggle before he was overwhelmed and then shot a number of times in the head. The children had been shot in their beds as they slept.

148. Sheila Caffell, probably in a sedated state from her medication, was also shot in the bedroom.

Hiya Cutie,how are you today.Yes,i often think that is the problem with this case.No scenario was needed at trial to convict JB.The scenario i quoted ,is from CALS book page 415.Anyway,i am not asking about the scenario,the main question is why did JB Shoot Sheila through the neck with the first shot ,instead of up into the brain.Even if Sheila was struggling,he simply couldnt have been that far off.Next you will be saying the rifle went off by mistake,before he was in position.

[lookout]

Sedated with what ? A reduction in her anti-psychotic injection ( by half ) which was days short of her next dose ? No other medication had been taken so the remains of what was in her system would have counteracted with the cannabis she'd smoked on the previous weekend-----which had remained in her blood stream. So, she wasn't sedated !   

[snow66!]

Look at it this way for a moment.JB knew the rifle was low velocity,and that a bullet in the neck was not guaranteed,by any means to kill Sheila.However by all accounts Sheilas knowledge and interest in guns was very limited,and probably like you or me Cutie,she would have thought a shot from a gun to the neck WUOLD have killed her.Just think about it for a minute,dont you think there is a ring of truth in the fact that Sheila fired a non fatal shot.But for JB to be stupid enough and careless enough,with his knowledge of the rifle? Think about it Cutie.

[Adam]

The first shot into Sheila was very damaging & would have knocked her out -

'The lower of the two would have been a fatal injury but not one where death would have occurred immediately'.

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There is no evidence Sheila stood up after the first shot. However she was still breathing.

Bamber had to make a decision there & then on a second shot.

[snow66!]

Sedated with what ? A reduction in her anti-psychotic injection ( by half ) which was days short of her next dose ? No other medication had been taken so the remains of what was in her system would have counteracted with the cannabis she'd smoked on the previous weekend-----which had remained in her blood stream. So, she wasn't sedated !

But to get around this,they have Sheila scared stiff and FROZEN.That is their scenario Lookout.But that is my point,if she was frozen,why did JB mess up the first shot.They cant have it all ways.Can the hard core guilters explain all this?

[Roch]

The first shot into Sheila was very damaging & would have knocked her out -

'The lower of the two would have been a fatal injury but not one where death would have occurred immediately'.

----------

There is no evidence Sheila stood up after the first shot. However she was still breathing.

Bamber had to make a decision there & then on a second shot.

An early podcast claimed that the first shot was the fatal shot. It's hard to conceive that this was an erroneous claim. The reason I say this is because prior to that claim, the CT has always ran with the official version regarding the order of shots.

[Adam]

Hiya Cutie,how are you today.Yes,i often think that is the problem with this case.No scenario was needed at trial to convict JB.The scenario i quoted ,is from CALS book page 415.Anyway,i am not asking about the scenario,the main question is why did JB Shoot Sheila through the neck with the first shot ,instead of up into the brain.Even if Sheila was struggling,he simply couldnt have been that far off.Next you will be saying the rifle went off by mistake,before he was in position.

The two shots were very close together. Both instantly or eventual fatal shots.

Bamber got his angles slightly wrong with the first shot. Although it was still a fatal shot.

[Adam]

Sedated with what ? A reduction in her anti-psychotic injection ( by half ) which was days short of her next dose ? No other medication had been taken so the remains of what was in her system would have counteracted with the cannabis she'd smoked on the previous weekend-----which had remained in her blood stream. So, she wasn't sedated !

Sheila was on Haloperidol & in a non responsive state. 

As confirmed by the last two alive witnesses to see/hear her alive - Bamber & the house keeper.