Author Topic: Snows JB scenario  (Read 11573 times)

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Offline killingeve

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #105 on: January 18, 2022, 11:36:PM »
Has there really been anything new since 1985?

Most I can think of is Mr Ismail's evidence at the 2002 appeal.

Afaik that's the only new evidence the prosecution has advanced. 

Everything advanced by the defence has been thrown out but has only really been a variation on themes at trial. 

Offline Adam

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #106 on: January 18, 2022, 11:39:PM »
Why accept Boyce's ballistics evidence when the pathologist who conducted the pm could not be sure what the marks were. 

But why would Bamber or Sheila single out Mr Bamber for this treatment

Prof Knight thought they were deep abrasions from prodding.  I think both were uncertain over whether they were recent but I would have to check on this.

I must remember not to upset you!

Bamber was checking for signs of life. Nevill had put up a tremendous struggle earlier.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #107 on: January 18, 2022, 11:43:PM »
Why accept Boyce's ballistics evidence when the pathologist who conducted the pm could not be sure what the marks were. 

But why would Bamber or Sheila single out Mr Bamber for this treatment? 

Prof Knight thought they were deep abrasions from prodding.  I think both were uncertain over whether they were recent but I would have to check on this.

I must remember not to upset you!

By Bamber to check for signs of life.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #108 on: January 18, 2022, 11:47:PM »
Bamber was checking for signs of life. Nevill had put up a tremendous struggle earlier.

Yes but he then sustained 4 gunshot wounds to the head. 

He no longer posed a risk in terms of overpowering Bamber, arming himself, raising the alarm etc, so the only reason to check for life would be to ensure he couldn't end up as a witness.  In which case how could he be certain the other victims did not present such a risk?

It was never suggested a trial Bamber was checking for life. 

Offline killingeve

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #109 on: January 18, 2022, 11:48:PM »
By Bamber to check for signs of life.

Then why didn't the prosecution assert such at trial?

Offline Adam

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #110 on: January 18, 2022, 11:51:PM »
Then why didn't the prosecution assert such at trial?

Suppose the defence would counter claim it was Sheila who did it.

The prosecution had a lot.

Bamber only claimed it was done minus/after the silencer had been taken off in 2012.
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Offline Armchair Detective

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #111 on: January 18, 2022, 11:53:PM »
Bamber was checking for signs of life. Nevill had put up a tremendous struggle earlier.

As I said above, boil the kettle or reload and make sure. 

Heating up the rifle is a bizarre thing to spend time doing and is more likely to be Sheila.

That is, if you can first establish Boyce's evidence from photographs can overcome that of a pathologist who examined the actual wounds.
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Online snow66!

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #112 on: January 18, 2022, 11:55:PM »
As i have said i have a theory for the marks ,to be included in my Sheila scenario.

Offline Adam

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #113 on: January 19, 2022, 12:00:AM »
As I said above, boil the kettle or reload and make sure. 

Heating up the rifle is a bizarre thing to spend time doing and is more likely to be Sheila.

That is, if you can first establish Boyce's evidence from photographs can overcome that of a pathologist who examined the actual wounds.

Would be interesting to see how long it would take to heat the rifle end sufficiently.

2-5 minutes & he can do other things as part of the stage while waiting.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Armchair Detective

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #114 on: January 19, 2022, 12:08:AM »
Would be interesting to see how long it would take to heat the rifle end sufficiently.

2-5 minutes & he can do other things as part of the stage while waiting.

From the 2012 JR:

24: There is, however, a further report that was submitted, after the Commission's decision of 25 April 2012, in which Mr Boyce set out his view as to how the rifle end could have been heated to the necessary temperature. He accepts that multiple firing would not have had sufficient effect on the temperature of the rifle barrel or the silencer. He concludes that the rifle or the silencer had to be heated artificially in order to burn. It was possible to heat a barrel on a hot plate of a cooker to 200 degrees in less than five minutes.

25) This issue is not dealt with by the Commission, but I think it would be helpful to express a short view. There was in the kitchen an AGA. The mechanism that Mr Boyce suggests must imply the placing of the rifle barrel on a hot plate of the AGA, and by the hot plate of the AGA I mean that part that is normally used for cooking and which when it is not used for cooking can be covered by a lid. An AGA is not constructed so if a gun is leant against it, it will heat the barrel up. As Mr Boyce makes clear, it would have to be on the hot plate. It seems to me that if that further evidence had been before the Commission, although it would be a matter for them, it would seem very improbable that a barrel would have been heated in that way.


I can't quite picture how the gun could be left on the Aga plate without holding it there?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 12:11:AM by Armchair Detective »
"When ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything, just let them talk" - Barack Obama

Offline Adam

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #115 on: January 19, 2022, 12:10:AM »
From the 2012 JR:

24: There is, however, a further report that was submitted, after the Commission's decision of 25 April 2012, in which Mr Boyce set out his view as to how the rifle end could have been heated to the necessary temperature. He accepts that multiple firing would not have had sufficient effect on the temperature of the rifle barrel or the silencer. He concludes that the rifle or the silencer had to be heated artificially in order to burn. It was possible to heat a barrel on a hot plate of a cooker to 200 degrees in less than five minutes.

25) This issue is not dealt with by the Commission, but I think it would be helpful to express a short view. There was in the kitchen an AGA. The mechanism that Mr Boyce suggests must imply the placing of the rifle barrel on a hot plate of the AGA, and by the hot plate of the AGA I mean that part that is normally used for cooking and which when it is not used for cooking can be covered by a lid. An AGA is not constructed so if a gun is leant against it, it will heat the barrel up. As Mr Boyce makes clear, it would have to be on the hot plate. It seems to me that if that further evidence had been before the Commission, although it would be a matter for them, it would seem very improbable that a barrel would have been heated in that way.


So Bamber had the facility - aga. He also had the time - less than 5 minutes.

This supports Nevill being lifted onto the coal scuttle.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Online snow66!

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #116 on: January 19, 2022, 12:12:AM »
As i have said, i will be including a theory about the burn marks in my Sheila scenario.

Offline Adam

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #117 on: January 19, 2022, 12:14:AM »
As i have said, i will be including a theory about the burn marks in my Sheila scenario.

Even Bamber thinks they were inflicted on the night.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Armchair Detective

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #118 on: January 19, 2022, 12:15:AM »
As i have said, i will be including a theory about the burn marks in my Sheila scenario.

Well, don't keep us in suspense too long Snow!
"When ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything, just let them talk" - Barack Obama

Offline Armchair Detective

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Re: Snows JB scenario
« Reply #119 on: January 19, 2022, 12:16:AM »
Even Bamber thinks they were inflicted on the night.

Bamber also thinks he can bamboozle people into believing Nevill spoke to PC West.
"When ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything, just let them talk" - Barack Obama