Snows JB scenario

[Adam]

No evidence Bamber lifted Mr Bamber onto the coal scuttle.

If Bamber was checking for signs of life what checks did he carry out on the other victims?  Why would he single out Mr Bamber?

Nevill was found on the coal scuttle. So must have been lifted. Sheila would not be strong enough.

Bamber believes the marks were burn marks. By the rifle minus silencer. It was the basis for his 2012 appeal.

You are being optimistic believing they could be from 40 years earlier.

[Adam]

42.

The examination of Nevill Bamber's body also revealed black eyes and a broken nose, linear bruising to the cheeks, lacerations to the head, linear type bruising to the right forearm, bruising to the left wrist and forearm and three circular burn type marks to the back

[Adam]

No evidence Bamber lifted Mr Bamber onto the coal scuttle.

If Bamber was checking for signs of life what checks did he carry out on the other victims?  Why would he single out Mr Bamber?

He can't burn everyones back.

Nevill did put up most resistance. And was next to the aga.

[snow66!]

Did you read my take on the burn marks Adam,why would he check for life wasting time when he was about to put more bullets in his brain,to make damned sure he was dead.

[Adam]

Did you read my take on the burn marks Adam,why would he check for life wasting time when he was about to put more bullets in his brain,to make damned sure he was dead.

He checked for life after he returned downstairs. June had needed 7 bullets.

[snow66!]

Do you mean before the final shots or after Adam.

[Adam]

Do you mean before the final shots or after Adam.

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10792.msg497580.html#msg497580

All on page 1.

[lookout]

He checked for life after he returned downstairs. June had needed 7 bullets.

Nobody NEEDED 7 bullets ! What a way of putting it-----as though you'd done it yourself !

[snow66!]

So you are saying after the final head shots.You must know that simply dosent hold any water Adam.

[guest29835]

I can assure you absolutely no offence was taken QC.I was delighted with your help and will probably need it again for my sheila scenario.Can i take this oppertunity to ask what you think the purpose of the marks on Nevilles back was,As you can see from my previous post i am plying for replys to my posts.

Possibilities:

(i). A poker was found by David Boutflour in the gun cupboard on 12th. September 1985.  The aga was lit on the night of the 6th./7th. August. 

(ii). Nevill suffered injuries in the attack that night.  This could have included the injuries to his back.

(iii). Could be old injuries - Nevill suffered a back injury while serving as an RAF pilot during the War.  After the War, he was a hands-on farmer right up to his death and could have suffered injuries or bruises at any time, any day of the week.  He may not even have been aware of these particular injuries.

(iv). Could be an oncological biopsy.  Nevill had discussions with the farm secretary, Barbara Wilson, that boded ill for the future.  It could be that he feared he may have cancer.  Maybe he did have cancer and did not want to tell Jeremy, and this was not picked up in the post-mortem.

I rule out (i) because no blood was found on the poker and it would not be practicable for the killer to use it.

I rule out (ii) because there was no blood coming from these back injuries.

I rule out (iv) because there are no reports of Nevill suffering symptoms that would be associated with cancerous tumours.  I also rule out the injuries being the result of the removal of benign tumours because the injuries are not consistent with this.

[Steve_uk]

Possibilities:

(i). A poker was found by David Boutflour in the gun cupboard on 12th. September 1985.  The aga was lit on the night of the 6th./7th. August. 

(ii). Nevill suffered injuries in the attack that night.  This could have included the injuries to his back.

(iii). Could be old injuries - Nevill suffered a back injury while serving as an RAF pilot during the War.  After the War, he was a hands-on farmer right up to his death and could have suffered injuries or bruises at any time, any day of the week.  He may not even have been aware of these particular injuries.

(iv). Could be an oncological biopsy.  Nevill had discussions with the farm secretary, Barbara Wilson, that boded ill for the future.  It could be that he feared he may have cancer.  Maybe he did have cancer and did not want to tell Jeremy, and this was not picked up in the post-mortem.

I rule out (i) because no blood was found on the poker and it would not be practicable for the killer to use it.

I rule out (ii) because there was no blood coming from these back injuries.

I rule out (iv) because there are no reports of Nevill suffering symptoms that would be associated with cancerous tumours.  I also rule out the injuries being the result of the removal of benign tumours because the injuries are not consistent with this.

He told Barbara that he wasn't suffering from cancer.

[guest29835]

He told Barbara that he wasn't suffering from cancer.

I understood that she thought he may have cancer, because he looked 'withdrawn', etc., but I've never heard or read mention of her asking him.  For me, it matters little anyway, as I don't believe the back injuries related to any current medical problem of that kind.

[snow66!]

Why would burn marks have to bleed QC.Iam going to assume they were made on the night for my Sheila scenario any how and you can see what you think.It will do no harm and make little over all difference to the scenario.the main thing is explaining when Nevill makes the phone call/s.As i have said i would appreciate your help editing my scenario again ,if you dont mind.Cheers.

[guest29835]

Why would burn marks have to bleed QC.Iam going to assume they were made on the night for my Sheila scenario any how and you can see what you think.It will do no harm and make little over all difference to the scenario.the main thing is explaining when Nevill makes the phone call/s.As i have said i would appreciate your help editing my scenario again ,if you dont mind.Cheers.

But you're assuming it was burn marks.  The injuries may have been the result of impact by the cold poker.
Or the injuries may be the result of simple scratching or something.  It may just have been bruising. 

If it was burns, the poker would then be used to inflict burns repeatedly, which could result in blood on the poker, but also remember that Nevill was bleeding anyway, so it is likely the poker would have picked up blood staining from Nevill and maybe transfer blood stains from the scene.  Presumably, Jeremy would then have to clean the poker, which adds one further complication to the crime.

Nevill's pyjama top did not have holes or tears in it, to my knowledge.  This is not conclusive because the killer could have lifted it to inflict burns or injuries, but I would have thought a hot poker would have made some sort of mark on the clothing.

[lookout]

I understood that she thought he may have cancer, because he looked 'withdrawn', etc., but I've never heard or read mention of her asking him.  For me, it matters little anyway, as I don't believe the back injuries related to any current medical problem of that kind.

I think he'd had incisions for removal of the odd skin cancers which isn't surprising working outdoors in the scorching heat of summer.