Snows JB scenario

[snow66!]

Thank you very much for editing my post QC hope it wasnt too much work.

[Adam]

They were suspicious but not because of the crime scene, but that they believed Sheila could not have done the crime?

Due to the crime scene showing two reloads, a kitchen fight & Nevill lifted onto a coal scuttle.

[Adam]

It is surprising the different Bamber scenarios.

CC has Sheila being tied up.

QC has Nevill getting his feet cold sleeping downstairs.  Then 4 casings somehow being moved upstairs into the bedroom by Crispy & the police.

snow66! has Bamber as a Mr Bean type. Finding it tough to sit on a bike for 15 minutes. Then bumping into things & waking the twins.

Look forward to snow66!'s Sheila scenario & Rob/QC answering my questions on theirs. 

[killingeve]

Hello everyone ,this is my JB scenario,and the problems he would have faced IF he was the perpetrator.We are told the most likely way he got to the farm was on his mothers bike possibly wearing a wet suit.Ok so he arrives at the farm having travelled about 3 miles ,sometimes over rough ground.His backside is numb and he is probably walking like hes had a toilet accident,i know from experience i would be anyway.So ,he composes himself and heads for the down stair toilet/shower room window.Bruce is barking but no one will bother about this,simply thinking he has heard a fox or something go past his shed door.JB jemmys the window and climbs in.Luckily no one is sitting on the toilet at the time.JB creeps through the house and retrieves the rifle.We are told it has ten bullets in the magazine and one in the breech.One each for the twins the rest for Nev and June upstairs.So JB creeps upstairs and heads for the twins bedroom.This is where his main obstacles start in my opinion.What does he do,is the door shut,does he open it quietly and creep over in the dark.What if he bumps into something and the boys waken up.does he use a torch to help,again they could waken up,What happens if they do hear him and put on a bedside lamp.Hes standing there in a wet suit,and they say-what on earth are you doing in our room at this time of night wearing a wet suit uncle Jeremy-.The voices may alert Nev/June.And worse ,what if hes wearing a mask,this would scare the living daylights out of them.They would definately scream their heads off alerting Nev/June.But we know the boys didnt wake up ,so JB must have been incredibly lucky and either put on the light and crept over to their beds or managed in the dark in some way.Let us note at this stage it would have been much easier for Sheila to enter the room and walk over to the twins without any suspicion whatsoever.She would hold the rifle behind her back,tell the boys she was checking on them and to go back to sleep.She could simply wait till they closed their eyes again,then bang.But So ,if we think about it for a moment ,the fact the boys did not move a muscle MUST be in JBs favour.But this is the JB scenario,so ok ,we must conclude he stealthily managed to creep up on them in some way and got an initial shot into each.We know roughly what happens next,he goes to Nev/Junes bedroom empties the rifle,Nev ends up in the kitchen and is beaten and shot to death.JB re-loads goes back upstairs and fires more bullets into June and the twins.Now ,the BIG obstacle,Sheila.JB had two choices ,shoot Sheila first out of the way or decide she was so weak,depressed,lethargic and drugged up she would pay no attention to the screams and mayhem going on as the massacre unfolded.Seeing there is no evidence she was shot first we must suspend belief slightly and conclude the latter to be true.So ,how does JB get Sheila to go through to his parents bedroom. wait for it.JBgoes into Sheilas room ,remarkably she hasnt stirred.JB tells her the racket she had heard was a party going on and that she is the star guest.He tells her she must put on a blind fold and be lead to her parents bedroom for a big surprise.And boy did she get one.JBleads her through tells her to lie down,aims ,and bang--bang.Job complete.Only ralatively minor problems left.He must hide the silencer in the gun cupboard without leaving any forensic evidence,ie no blood stains on the cupboard and no blood,sugar or broken glass taken through to the office from his feet. Next he must somehow climb out of the kitchen window ,and manage to get the bottom and side catches firmly into place.Then finaly whatever attire he was wearing must be completely cleaned or disposed of,either on the way home or at his house.Again dodgy taking forensic evidence from the massacre home to his own house.One final thought,the Judge at JBs trial said,that no matter how JB got to the farm ,and how he entered and exited the house,while being of interest makes no real difference to the outcome of the case.Or words to that effect.So when does things begin to make a difference.What about how he managed to sneak up on the twins ,how did he manage to get Sheila to the bedroom.How many things can simply go unexplained in a satisfactory way before they do have an effect on this case.Thank you for reading.

* Bamber said he took the bullet out the breech and put it in the mag meaning a total of 10.  You appear to have 11.

* The pathological evidence has the twins sustaining all gunshots in quick succession evidenced by the fact there was no movement inbetween shots.

* The pathological and ballistics evidence has 10 bullets fired at Mr and Mrs Bamber upstairs in the first round.

* Perp needs to reload before inflicting Mr Bamber's kitchen shots.  Your scenario doesn't mention the reloading.

* I believe the blood, sugar and broken glass was contained to certain areas thus the perp was able to move around freely without the risk of contamination.

* No evidence exists that the perp's clothing/person would contain any debris save gunshot residue which wasn't tested for.

Good scenario for a newbie. 

[snow66!]

There is one thing i would like to add to my scenario.The burn marks on Nevs back .We are told three ring type burn marks appeared on his backon the night of the murders.So when was this done.Did JB decide when he was finished and ready to exit the house,that it was a good idea to heat some object up and waste time having some fun burning little ring like marks on his fathers back.Instead of scarpering as quick as possible and getting cleaned up.I have read the marks were made prodding Nev down stairs.If so when was the fifle heated in the aga,Was this before the massacre started ,or did he suddenly say ,hold on do you mind having a time out while i nip down srairs and heat the end of the rifle.Nev and June agree and say fair enough son.So JB nips down to the kitchen and while waiting for the rifle to heat up has a drink of water,its damned hot work carrying out a massacre in a wet suit.dosnt work does it.What about the story of checking if Nev was dead,when,after the big fight and he was beaten.Why bother,he was going to make damned sure everyone was dead with multiple head shots.Pointless.No i think there was more chance of Sheila inflicting the marks,and i will explain why in my Sheila scenario,to follow.

[killingeve]

I am very sorry QC i do not have the skill on a computer to do either ,but if you can re-direct the post or edit it,i would be more than happy to let you do so.

You are far politer than I would have been had such a request been asked of me. 

I found your post easy to follow and understand in all respects. 

[Jane]

'Lo Snow. You've clearly put much thought into your scenario. Well done for giving it a go. Not many of us have given so comprehensive a version.
 Sadly, you don't seem to have much background knowledge of the characters. Jeremy waking Sheila in the middle of the night for a party in their parents' home, whist those parents were in residence? That was never going to happen.

[snow66!]

Thanks cutie.

[killingeve]

There is one thing i would like to add to my scenario.The burn marks on Nevs back .We are told three ring type burn marks appeared on his backon the night of the murders.So when was this done.Did JB decide when he was finished and ready to exit the house,that it was a good idea to heat some object up and waste time having some fun burning little ring like marks on his fathers back.Instead of scarpering as quick as possible and getting cleaned up.I have read the marks were made prodding Nev down stairs.If so when was the fifle heated in the aga,Was this before the massacre started ,or did he suddenly say ,hold on do you mind having a time out while i nip down srairs and heat the end of the rifle.Nev and June agree and say fair enough son.So JB nips down to the kitchen and while waiting for the rifle to heat up has a drink of water,its damned hot work carrying out a massacre in a wet suit.dosnt work does it.What about the story of checking if Nev was dead,when,after the big fight and he was beaten.Why bother,he was going to make damned sure everyone was dead with multiple head shots.Pointless.No i think there was more chance of Sheila inflicting the marks,and i will explain why in my Sheila scenario,to follow.

There's no firm evidence the marks on Mr Bamber's back were burns or even that the marks were inflicted during the murders. 

Prof Knight defence pathologist did not think they were burn marks and according to him Dr Vanezis was unsure.  Relevant trial testimony attached.

[Adam]

There is one thing i would like to add to my scenario.The burn marks on Nevs back .We are told three ring type burn marks appeared on his backon the night of the murders.So when was this done.Did JB decide when he was finished and ready to exit the house,that it was a good idea to heat some object up and waste time having some fun burning little ring like marks on his fathers back.Instead of scarpering as quick as possible and getting cleaned up.I have read the marks were made prodding Nev down stairs.If so when was the fifle heated in the aga,Was this before the massacre started ,or did he suddenly say ,hold on do you mind having a time out while i nip down srairs and heat the end of the rifle.Nev and June agree and say fair enough son.So JB nips down to the kitchen and while waiting for the rifle to heat up has a drink of water,its damned hot work carrying out a massacre in a wet suit.dosnt work does it.What about the story of checking if Nev was dead,when,after the big fight and he was beaten.Why bother,he was going to make damned sure everyone was dead with multiple head shots.Pointless.No i think there was more chance of Sheila inflicting the marks,and i will explain why in my Sheila scenario,to follow.

Bamber said himself the marks on Nevill's back were burn marks.

It was the basis for his 2012 CCRC submission.

He believes the burn marks were caused minus the silencer. Which I agree with.

Nevill was also lifted onto a coal scuttle. So his pyjama top could be pulled up easily.

[snow66!]

Thank you Adam,Jane and cutie for your criticism,and information on the points i got wrong.

[lookout]

Thank you Adam,Jane and cutie for your criticism,and information on the points i got wrong.

Not particularly that you got wrong Snow !!

[snow66!]

Thanks Lookout,hope you and the cats are well today.Any comments on my scensrio.I dont seem to be getting many.I may have to try canvassing the other posters for some trade.

[guest29835]

Thank you very much for editing my post QC hope it wasnt too much work.

I am now being accused of offending you, even though you have accused me of no such thing.  To be clear, no offence was intended.  I was merely trying to help you, and also myself - I found it impossible to read your post as originally constructed as it's just one wall of text. 

[Armchair Detective]

I am now being accused of offending you, even though you have accused me of no such thing.  To be clear, no offence was intended.  I was merely trying to help you, and also myself - I found it impossible to read your post as originally constructed as it's just one wall of text.

I will second that, I can't read blocks of unbroken text, it sends my eyes all squiffy.