Author Topic: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.  (Read 9080 times)

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Offline killingeve

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #105 on: January 15, 2022, 11:30:AM »
Bamber enters bedroom around 2am - Undisputed.

Nevill and June are in their bed attire - Undisputed.

Nevill and June are in bed asleep - Undisputed.

Bamber opens fire from June's side of the bed - Undisputed.

June is shot 5 times in bed - Undisputed.

Nevill wakes as June is being shot & starts to get out of bed - Undisputed.

Bamber fires two close range shots into Nevill's face as he is getting out of bed - Undisputed.

Nevill stands up & moves away from the bed - Undisputed.

Bamber shoots Nevill twice in the torso from feet away - Undisputed.

Nevill exits the main bedroom - Undisputed.

June was shot 6 times to the body in bed and upon leaving:  5 entry wounds. 3 exit wounds. 1 non-penetrating wound.

June was shot a further twice in the head where she was found: 2 entry wounds.

A total of 8 gunshot wounds:

7 entry wounds

3 exit wounds

1 non-penetrating wound

Offline Adam

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #106 on: January 15, 2022, 11:35:AM »
June was shot 6 times to the body in bed and upon leaving:  5 entry wounds. 3 exit wounds. 1 non-penetrating wound.

June was shot a further twice in the head where she was found: 2 entry wounds.

A total of 8 gunshot wounds:

7 entry wounds

3 exit wounds

1 non-penetrating wound



63.

Of the seven injuries suffered by June Bamber, five were shots from the gun held at least one foot away from the body. The bullet wound between the eyes was fired from less than one foot away, and could have been with the gun in contact with the skin, although he viewed that as unlikely. Mr Fletcher was unable to estimate the range of the shot which had caused the injury to the right side of Mrs Bamber's chest.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #107 on: January 15, 2022, 11:38:AM »
60.

Found in or just outside the bedroom were thirteen cartridge cases.

Seven would account for the shots into June Bamber, two for the wounds suffered by Sheila Caffell, leaving four cartridge cases that had been fired at Nevill Bamber

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #108 on: January 15, 2022, 11:45:AM »
Awaiting CC's source. Will have to be good to negate the COA.

Not too important as it does not change my undisputed scenario going by the crime scene evidence.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 11:47:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #109 on: January 15, 2022, 11:55:AM »
Have you got a source June walked to the other side of the bedroom & back?

Suspect it was a combination of walking, stumbling & crawling. Before finally collapsing.

June going to the box room entrance & back suggests this entrance/exit was blocked.

Relevant part of pathological evidence attached.

If Mrs Bamber was stumbling or crawling then I guess you might expect to see smears of blood on the carpet but to my eye the stains appear to represent drips.  In any event I don't think its important whether she walked, stumbled or crawled.

There's no blood staining as far as the door to the box room.  It looks to me as though she went to Mr Bamber's side in anticipation of the phone being there.

Offline Adam

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #110 on: January 15, 2022, 11:59:AM »
Relevant part of pathological evidence attached.

If Mrs Bamber was stumbling or crawling then I guess you might expect to see smears of blood on the carpet but to my eye the stains appear to represent drips.  In any event I don't think its important whether she walked, stumbled or crawled.

There's no blood staining as far as the door to the box room.  It looks to me as though she went to Mr Bamber's side in anticipation of the phone being there.

Agree. The main thing is she was shot in bed while sleeping. Which negates QC's theory that June was on the landing shouting & was shot there.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #111 on: January 15, 2022, 12:34:PM »
Agree. The main thing is she was shot in bed while sleeping. Which negates QC's theory that June was on the landing shouting & was shot there.

No one knows whether or not she was actually sleeping but the pathological and ballistics evidence is crystal clear she sustained a total of 6 gunshot wounds whilst prone with her head on the pillow and whilst she lifted herself out of bed.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #112 on: January 15, 2022, 12:36:PM »


63.

Of the seven injuries suffered by June Bamber, five were shots from the gun held at least one foot away from the body. The bullet wound between the eyes was fired from less than one foot away, and could have been with the gun in contact with the skin, although he viewed that as unlikely. Mr Fletcher was unable to estimate the range of the shot which had caused the injury to the right side of Mrs Bamber's chest.


Offline Adam

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #113 on: January 15, 2022, 01:03:PM »


Seems to be the lawyer is suggesting there were 8 shots. However this did not match the bullet casings.

The COA 17 years later had it down as 7.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #114 on: January 15, 2022, 01:06:PM »
The defence case is that Mrs Bamber sustained 8 gunshot wounds: 7 entry wounds, 3 exit wounds and 1 non-penetrating wound.  This is based on the pathological evidence that the gouge mark to her chest could have been caused by a non-penetrating wound independent of all others.

The above is supported by bullets found in the bedroom: DRH 35 x 2, DRH 5 and DRH 9: 3 from the exit wounds and 1 from the non-pentrating wound.  And casings: DRH 3,4,6, 7 x 2, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 43: 8 x gunshot wounds Mrs Bamber and 4 x gunshot wounds Mr Bamber.

The prosecution case is that Mrs Bamber sustained 7 gunshot wounds: 7 entry wounds and 3 exit wounds.  This is based on the pathological evidence that the gouge mark to her chest could have been caused by a bullet richochet from one of the other wounds.

The above isn't supported by the bullets found in the bedroom since four were found and the above scenario only requires 3.  It also means there's 1 casing too many.  Unless you buy into the theory that the rifle malfuntioned as Bamber was walking up the stairs and he ejected a casing on the landing or someone inadvertently carried it upstairs under foot or on clothing.  These explanations account for only 3 casings found in the kitchen when Mr Bamber clearly sustained 4 gunshot wounds there. 

The most straightforward explanation is that 1 casing (about 5mm x 5mm) was lost in the kitchen.  Mrs Bamber sustained 8 gunshot wounds: 7 entry wounds, 3 exit wounds, 1 non-penetrating wound with the four bullets relating to her gunshot wounds. 11 casings found in the bedroom and 1 on the landing relate to Mrs Bamber's 8 wounds and Mr Bamber's 4 wounds. 

Obviously I have not included the 2 casings found near Sheila's head as these clearly relate to her 2 gunshot wounds.

Offline Adam

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #115 on: January 15, 2022, 01:13:PM »
The defence case is that Mrs Bamber sustained 8 gunshot wounds: 7 entry wounds, 3 exit wounds and 1 non-penetrating wound.  This is based on the pathological evidence that the gouge mark to her chest could have been caused by a non-penetrating wound independent of all others.

The above is supported by bullets found in the bedroom: DRH 35 x 2, DRH 5 and DRH 9: 3 from the exit wounds and 1 from the non-pentrating wound.  And casings: DRH 3,4,6, 7 x 2, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 43: 8 x gunshot wounds Mrs Bamber and 4 x gunshot wounds Mr Bamber.

The prosecution case is that Mrs Bamber sustained 7 gunshot wounds: 7 entry wounds and 3 exit wounds.  This is based on the pathological evidence that the gouge mark to her chest could have been caused by a bullet richochet from one of the other wounds.

The above isn't supported by the bullets found in the bedroom since four were found and the above scenario only requires 3.  It also means there's 1 casing too many.  Unless you buy into the theory that the rifle malfuntioned as Bamber was walking up the stairs and he ejected a casing on the landing or someone inadvertently carried it upstairs under foot or on clothing.  These explanations account for only 3 casings found in the kitchen when Mr Bamber clearly sustained 4 gunshot wounds there. 

The most straightforward explanation is that 1 casing (about 5mm x 5mm) was lost in the kitchen.  Mrs Bamber sustained 8 gunshot wounds: 7 entry wounds, 3 exit wounds, 1 non-penetrating wound with the four bullets relating to her gunshot wounds. 11 casings found in the bedroom and 1 on the landing relate to Mrs Bamber's 8 wounds and Mr Bamber's 4 wounds. 

Obviously I have not included the 2 casings found near Sheila's head as these clearly relate to her 2 gunshot wounds.

I will go by Julie's WS, which says the twins were shot first. Which would have been one shot each.

Leaving 9 bullets for June & Nevill who were sleeping. Five to June, 4 to Nevill.

Maybe Bamber shot June 3 times after he returned upstairs from the kitchen fight.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2022, 01:14:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest29835

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #116 on: January 15, 2022, 01:22:PM »
How it can be open to interpretation when two highly qualified pathologists of long experience agree either one of the headshots Mrs Bamber sustained would have rendered her incapable of involuntary movement thereafter?  The 2 shots to the head were immediately fatal.

Mrs Bamber wasn't crawling around.  The pathological evidence makes it clear she was standing having sustained the 6 not immediately fatal body shots evidenced by the blood staining.

Of course you know more than two highly qualified pathologists of long experience ::)

You are now saying you believe Mrs Bamber's body was moved prior to soc images.  Would that be before or after four casings were moved?   ::)

We all have brains its how they're used or not that counts.  :P

It's simply unbelievable that you are the first to upload podcasts and media interviews with the CT, which you appear to be fully supportive of, and yet are quite scathing about the pathological evidence.   ::)

You have clearly not read my posts.

My scenario is that June was not shot in bed, she was shot while standing (except for the last shot).  I must have repeated this now about 20 times.  It's Adam and Steve who say she was lying down or propped-up, etc. while shot.

We can't know if she was crawling around or not, but let's put it this way: if a lady in her sixties is shot six times, and she's still alive, she might well be crawling around.

If you wish to respond to my posts, please ensure you read what I have said first.  Please do not goad me on this Forum. 

As for June's body being moved, I've explained that too and I think the final recorded position of June's body strongly suggests she was moved.  I'm not inclined to enter into a constructive dialogue with you because, like Adam, you don't listen.  You're just here to jump in and 'correct' me for ego purposes.

Evidence must be interpreted.  If we were to just treat what experts say as rigid, immoveable, literal Gospel, there would be few or no criminal appeals.

Offline lookout

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #117 on: January 15, 2022, 01:25:PM »
Say what you all like, you're only arguing for arguments sake----Jeremy is innocent !

Offline Adam

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #118 on: January 15, 2022, 01:25:PM »
You have clearly not read my posts.

My scenario is that June was not shot in bed, she was shot while standing (except for the last shot).  I must have repeated this now about 20 times.  It's Adam and Steve who say she was lying down or propped-up, etc. while shot.

We can't know if she was crawling around or not, but let's put it this way: if a lady in her sixties is shot six times, and she's still alive, she might well be crawling around.

If you wish to respond to my posts, please ensure you read what I have said first.  Please do not goad me on this Forum. 

As for June's body being moved, I've explained that too and I think the final recorded position of June's body strongly suggests she was moved.  I'm not inclined to enter into a constructive dialogue with you because, like Adam, you don't listen.  You're just here to jump in and 'correct' me for ego purposes.

The evidence is she was shot in bed.

Scenario's must match the evidence.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest29835

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Re: Undisputed scenario for opening 9 bedroom shots.
« Reply #119 on: January 15, 2022, 01:27:PM »
Say what you all like, you're only arguing for arguments sake----Jeremy is innocent !

I am not just arguing for argument's sake. 

I may add that I am not 'arguing' at all, actually.  The arguments arise because some people don't listen to what others are saying.