Guns from whf handed in by Bunting who refuses to name persons to police

[grahameb]

Grahame,Bunting is not a friend of the Boutflours,he is a relative.I think he either has a connection with Pamela Boutflour,or Granny Speakman.You will have to ask Keira as she knows the exact details.

Ok thanks for that info.

[mike tesko]

One of the two guns which was handed in to Bunting, had two barrels, where one was a shotgun barrel, whilst the other was a .22, potentially capable of firing one or more of the crime scene bullets which could not  be conclusively linked to the Bamber rifle?

[grahameb]

He could have been charged with obstructing the police in the course of their investigations?

[mike tesko]

I have long since held the view that this weapon may have played some role in the attack on Ralph Bamber? In particular with regard to the double circular burn marks that were inflicted on the back of Ralph Bambers neck?

[grahameb]

I have long since held the view that this weapon may have played some role in the attack on Ralph Bamber? In particular with regard to the double circular burn marks that were inflicted on the back of Ralph Bambers neck?

Do you think a hot barrel of a rifle would leave such marks? I'm not sure how hot a .22 barrel would get?

[clifford]

I have long since held the view that this weapon may have played some role in the attack on Ralph Bamber? In particular with regard to the double circular burn marks that were inflicted on the back of Ralph Bambers neck?

Do you think a hot barrel of a rifle would leave such marks? I'm not sure how hot a .22 barrel would get?

Did ngb say he was going to experiment with one of his guns to see how hot the barrel got after firing a number of bullets.
I am not certain it was ngb, but it would be interesting to know.

[ngb1066]

I have long since held the view that this weapon may have played some role in the attack on Ralph Bamber? In particular with regard to the double circular burn marks that were inflicted on the back of Ralph Bambers neck?

Do you think a hot barrel of a rifle would leave such marks? I'm not sure how hot a .22 barrel would get?

Did ngb say he was going to experiment with one of his guns to see how hot the barrel got after firing a number of bullets.
I am not certain it was ngb, but it would be interesting to know.

It was me and I am afraid I have still not got around to it.  I agreed to fire 50 subsonic hollowpoint rounds through a semiautomatic .22 rifle, half without a silencer fitted and the other half with it fitted.  I need to find the time to set up the experiment - it will involve waiting for the rifle to cool after the first 25 shots and then I will have to clean it at the end of the experiment.  I need a clear hour or so but I have been very busy recently and have not been out with a rifle for a few weeks.  I will conduct the experiment and report back.  I am fairly confident that the rifle barrel will become quite hot, but I am not sure what the effect of the silencer will be.  I have a hunch that the heat will be dissipated to a considerable extent and the end of the silencer will not be hot enough to burn skin, but I may be wrong on that.  Without the silencer fitted I believe that after 25 shots fired within a short period of time the end of the rifle barrel will be hot enough to burn skin.  I will report back in due course.

 

[clifford]

I have long since held the view that this weapon may have played some role in the attack on Ralph Bamber? In particular with regard to the double circular burn marks that were inflicted on the back of Ralph Bambers neck?

Do you think a hot barrel of a rifle would leave such marks? I'm not sure how hot a .22 barrel would get?

Did ngb say he was going to experiment with one of his guns to see how hot the barrel got after firing a number of bullets.
I am not certain it was ngb, but it would be interesting to know.

It was me and I am afraid I have still not got around to it.  I agreed to fire 50 subsonic hollowpoint rounds through a semiautomatic .22 rifle, half without a silencer fitted and the other half with it fitted.  I need to find the time to set up the experiment - it will involve waiting for the rifle to cool after the first 25 shots and then I will have to clean it at the end of the experiment.  I need a clear hour or so but I have been very busy recently and have not been out with a rifle for a few weeks.  I will conduct the experiment and report back.  I am fairly confident that the rifle barrel will become quite hot, but I am not sure what the effect of the silencer will be.  I have a hunch that the heat will be dissipated to a considerable extent and the end of the silencer will not be hot enough to burn skin, but I may be wrong on that.  Without the silencer fitted I believe that after 25 shots fired within a short period of time the end of the rifle barrel will be hot enough to burn skin.  I will report back in due course.

Thanks, ngb. I look forward to what you find.

[chochokeira]

Grahame,Bunting is not a friend of the Boutflours,he is a relative.I think he either has a connection with Pamela Boutflour,or Granny Speakman.You will have to ask Keira as she knows the exact details.

Grannie Speakman was born Mabel Bunting on 28/5 1890, her birth registered in the Maldon reg district that year. She is shown on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses, living with her parents, John, a farmer born in Tolleshunt D'arcy in 1839 and her mother (Sarah, I believe, need to check that) at Jehew's Farm, Maldon Road, Goldhanger, which I believe was later known as Joyces Farm. Mabel Bunting married Leslie R Speakman in 1919 in the Maldon reg district. 

[grahameb]

Grahame,Bunting is not a friend of the Boutflours,he is a relative.I think he either has a connection with Pamela Boutflour,or Granny Speakman.You will have to ask Keira as she knows the exact details.

Grannie Speakman was born Mabel Bunting on 28/5 1890, her birth registered in the Maldon reg district that year. She is shown on the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses, living with her parents, John, a farmer born in Tolleshunt D'arcy in 1839 and her mother (Sarah, I believe, need to check that) at Jehew's Farm, Maldon Road, Goldhanger, which I believe was later known as Joyces Farm. Mabel Bunting married Leslie R Speakman in 1919 in the Maldon reg district.

Very interesting Keira. Thank for the information.

[mike tesko]

I have long since held the view that this weapon may have played some role in the attack on Ralph Bamber? In particular with regard to the double circular burn marks that were inflicted on the back of Ralph Bambers neck?

Do you think a hot barrel of a rifle would leave such marks? I'm not sure how hot a .22 barrel would get?

... Imagine that double barrelled weapon leaning up against the hot aga oven door in the kithen at whf, and it being used to prod the back of Ralphs neck to check if he was still alive, or dead?

[grahameb]

I have long since held the view that this weapon may have played some role in the attack on Ralph Bamber? In particular with regard to the double circular burn marks that were inflicted on the back of Ralph Bambers neck?

Do you think a hot barrel of a rifle would leave such marks? I'm not sure how hot a .22 barrel would get?

... Imagine that double barrelled weapon leaning up against the hot aga oven door in the kithen at whf, and it being used to prod the back of Ralphs neck to check if he was still alive, or dead?

Oh, I see what you're getting at now. So you think the marks on his neck were inflicted AFTER death?

[mike tesko]

I have long since held the view that this weapon may have played some role in the attack on Ralph Bamber? In particular with regard to the double circular burn marks that were inflicted on the back of Ralph Bambers neck?

Do you think a hot barrel of a rifle would leave such marks? I'm not sure how hot a .22 barrel would get?

... Imagine that double barrelled weapon leaning up against the hot aga oven door in the kithen at whf, and it being used to prod the back of Ralphs neck to check if he was still alive, or dead?

Oh, I see what you're getting at now. So you think the marks on his neck were inflicted AFTER death?

-----------

Precisely...

[grahameb]

I have long since held the view that this weapon may have played some role in the attack on Ralph Bamber? In particular with regard to the double circular burn marks that were inflicted on the back of Ralph Bambers neck?

Do you think a hot barrel of a rifle would leave such marks? I'm not sure how hot a .22 barrel would get?

... Imagine that double barrelled weapon leaning up against the hot aga oven door in the kithen at whf, and it being used to prod the back of Ralphs neck to check if he was still alive, or dead?

Oh, I see what you're getting at now. So you think the marks on his neck were inflicted AFTER death?

-----------

Precisely...

Did the coroner say anything about them as to whether they were inflicted before or after death?

[mike tesko]

These circular burn marks that the pathologist found on the back of Ralph Bambers neck, have never been photographed, or if they have the photographs have never yet been disclosed?

Any photographs which were taken during the autopsy upon Ralph need to be obtained so that the object which caused the marks can be identified? As I say, I think the guns barrel caused those marks, and the gun in question had two barrels, each barrel different in design and dimensions to the other. I am trying to find the actual statement which describes the weapon we are talking about that was seized from Bunting, so that we can try to find out all we can about such a weapon, and in particular, the dimensions of its barrels, with a view to making a comparison against the double circular burn marks found on the back of Ralph's neck?