Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor  (Read 2654 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

guest29835

  • Guest
Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« on: December 17, 2021, 01:03:PM »
“I should have been an actor”, said Jeremy to Julie at Bourtree Cottage - according to Julie.

The director then momentarily switches the lights to the off-stage area, where we find D.S. Stan Jones earwigging on the young couple.  Jones hears a cough or chuckle and interrupts them.  The play then switches to the funeral of Nevill and June Bamber, where our film star [sorry, movie star], Jeremy, faces the world’s media, a virtual Theatre of Dionysus, at what is supposed to be his lowest moment.  Here the actor switches to performer and naturalism gives way to theatricalism, even honky-tonk.

His former head teacher noticed it.  Mike Ainsley claims his wife noticed.  The corpulent actor who portrayed Stan Jones in the 2020 drama claims he watched the televised funeral, while still a student at drama school, and that he thought Jeremy was faking grief and distress.

If Jeremy was an actor, he wasn’t much of one, as it seems he didn’t convince many people, discerning or otherwise.  Actors are professional deceivers; they integrate themselves into the drama they portray.  A good actor is supposed to induce you into a fictional world in which you forget he is acting.  A performer, on the other hand, is only any good if he makes it obvious to his audience that he is acting up for their benefit.  Performers therefore thrive on melodrama and propound it, it’s their meat and drink.
 
At the funeral, Jeremy was more of a performer than an actor, with shades of Tony Blair’s severe and solemn performance at the 1994 funeral of John Smith at an austere parish church in Scotland.  Jeremy wasn’t engaged in deception necessarily, rather he was performing what he believed was a necessary code of behaviour at a social ritual, so as not to appear insensitive.  The extended family who filed into the Church behind Jeremy were more straightened, po-faced and upright, with not a tear or note of upset in sight.  They were the actors.

Colin Caffell was neither actor nor performer.  At least at the funeral, he was just himself.  In the archived coverage, he is cool and collected.  He smiles reassuringly to Jeremy during the long painful walk across the cemetery, seemingly equanimous, neither perturbed nor over-joyed at the prospect of interring the ashes of the elderly woman he hated - though no doubt also conflicted about it, and of course pained inside at the loss of his sons.  By Jeremy’s side is Julie, dressed properly in black, the girlfriend who identified the bodies at the morgue. In their strange and fraught relationship, the anger and the drama came from Julie, the angst and the melodrama from Jeremy.  Julie was the actor, Jeremy was the performer, and we can see this in the video of them at the funeral: Julie behaving conservatively and conventionally, ever the skilled actress, Jeremy affecting an emotional breakdown, ever the performer.
 
Julie, an ambitious career woman of middling ability, perhaps really did want to be ‘Lady of the Manor’ and waited quietly for Jeremy to pop the question.  He finally did over the Christmas of 1984, at which point Julie became his fiancée, even if Jeremy would subsequently deny it in the presence of Julie’s family and Brett Collins.  Jeremy, in contrast, was unambitious and part of a farming family that was technically of the lower English gentry.  He was not middle-class or suburban or boring.  He was already set in life: he would be wealthy, this was guaranteed from the day he was adopted by the Bambers, but this came at a price, as all things do.  The price in his case was the reduced parameters of a farming life in north Essex.  Jeremy wanted experiences.  Proposing to Julie was one experience, like proposing to Suzette Ford some three years before; he then moved on to new experiences, new buzzes.  Now with his parents dead, he intended to move on more completely.  The funeral was not just the ceremonial end of his parents and his former life, it was the end of his relationship with Julie.  They were saying goodbye, even if perhaps Julie and Jeremy themselves had not realised it.

Julie had already done some acting in October 1984 with Susan Battersby when they committed cheque fraud together.  Some three weeks after the funerals, she did a bit more and convinced the police that Jeremy was the culprit in the murders.  She and Susan Battersby also returned to the bank they had defrauded to apologise and pay the money bank.  The bank did not press charges.

Jeremy stole too, but his plans tended to involve performing for others, showing-off, boasting – for Liz Rimmington when, in August 1984, he told her that he planned to rob a large house in Goldhanger; for Julie herself, in February 1985, when he took her to Osea Road to rob the site office at the holiday park, then took her out in London to spend the money.  Jeremy was insecure and out of place.  He was an adopted son brought up among an extended family who resented him.  He was too posh for the local schools and not posh enough for the boarding school, Gresham’s.  He was neither one thing nor the other.  He did not fit in.  On the tractor, he liked to dress as a New Romantic.  Julie was from a middle-class family; there had been a divorce when Julie was an infant, but largely Julie’s upbringing was normal and untroubled.  She fitted in and was a conventional, average person who intended to pursue a career.  As such, Julie was an unconscious emulator of those around her.  She was not exceptional, she just did what was expected of her. 

Julie’s tendency to emulate others and go with convention was and is typical of most people.  One calls to mind Shakespeare in As You Like It, Act II, Scene VII: “All the world's a stage” · And all the men and women merely players…”  Yet that quote from Shakespeare is usually misunderstood or taken out-of-context.  Shakespeare is not suggesting that everybody puts on an act in life and is false, rather he is referring by analogy to the different stages of life and their vicissitudes, suggesting they are rather like different parts of a stage play.  Both Julie and Jeremy had a long life ahead of them.  Who knows how Jeremy’s ‘act’ might have changed and matured?  We know Julie’s did.  She got her ‘act’ together, so to speak, but she foreclosed that chance for Jeremy - or Jeremy destroyed himself, depending on how you look at it.  But if Jeremy is guilty, then who was responsible for turning him to this wickedness?  There is a prior question in the same vein, concerning Julie and Jeremy: Which one most influenced the other?  Did Julie’s tendency to emulate mean that Jeremy’s negative character traits rubbed off on her, and being rather impressionable and immature, she carried out the cheque fraud and sold drugs for him, so as to impress him?  Or was Julie the manipulator?  Or was it a bit of both?  We will probably never know the truth, but the notion of Jeremy as manipulator and Julie as a manipulated party would fit with what we can discern about the character of both.  Julie’s rebelliousness was, mostly, comparatively minor and of the kind that most hypocritical middle-class people indulge in when they are young, forgetting it ever happened later in life when they reassure themselves of their virtue and decency.  Yet the question can never be fully resolved because the mystery of Julie’s culpability in the murders is left hanging in the air, unanswered.

We can also observe that the manipulation of Julie did not require special Machiavellian or Svengali traits on Jeremy’s part, merely a modicum of will over a younger, impressionable woman.  But if what Julie says is true and Jeremy is the evil and wicked monster who stepped effortlessly into a dark Stanislavsky role and wiped out his family, then Jeremy must have gone bad somewhere and must have learned somewhere the skills needed for the art of persuasion.  The obvious answer is boarding school, rather than White House Farm.  Nevill was not a man inclined to criminality, crookedness or trickery, quite the opposite, and it is difficult to imagine him as a smooth-talker or a liar - though he was a hit with the ladies when he arrived in Maldon from Cirencester in the late 1940s.  Jeremy must have picked up some of that from him, and we must also not forget the possible negative influences of June, a very upstanding woman, but mentally-ill.  However, the influence of Gresham’s, where Jeremy was known to be a miscreant and a tease, was probably more pivotal in subtly turning him towards moral reflexivity and a general attitude of contemptuousness and selfishness.

We should reflect at this point on the responsibility of Gresham’s for what ensued.  Jeremy's actual career at Gresham’s overall seems non-serious: escaping to music concerts and general misbehaviour; one of the few notes of seriousness was when he went to the effort of making a table in the workshop at Gresham’s, as a wedding present for his sister, Sheila.  The housemaster in Fairfield House - a house at Gresham’s - William Thomas, described Jeremy as a “bizarre character” who was “not particularly distinguished artistically, in acting or in sports”.  Mr Thomas also had other less-than-flattering things to say about his former charge.  It seems that not only did Jeremy fail Gresham’s, Gresham’s failed Jeremy. These comments from Mr Thomas and those from the headmaster fail to consider the fragility of a young man who has not yet reached legal adulthood.  Rather than conduct themselves with a little class and discretion, his former teachers and masters have behaved ungraciously, with not a good word to say for him.  This is especially egregious when one reflects on the allegation from Colin Caffell and Brett Collins that Jeremy may have been sexually-abused at Gresham’s.  Crucially, Colin and Brett make the claim independently of each other.  If true, it is perhaps not surprising.  If Jeremy is guilty, then apart from the obviously correct observation of Dr. Venezis, that to do something like that Jeremy must be mad (“He’d have to be a right nutter”), to wipe out his family, including two little boys, he cannot be a fully human human being, he is a broken shell.   

After the shootings, Jeremy metamorphosed into Colin, whereas Colin quickly grew up.  For Colin, the White House Farm tragedy was a maturing event.  For Jeremy, it was infantalising, and he became an exaggerated version of the Previous Colin Caffell, a sort of slightly trivial, overblown, selfish person.  Colin himself took a holiday and bought a car during this period, but in Colin’s case it was just a holiday and just a car.  In Jeremy’s case, taking a holiday meant going to St. Tropez, and a car meant potentially buying a Porsche.  Jeremy was like an oversized, larger-than-life character in a stage play, the type who comes on stage and people either cheer or boo at, or maybe a bit of both.  His role in the amateur performance of Horrortorio at the Goldhanger village hall in April 1984 presaged this.  He was ‘The Thing’: an amorphous non-character, scaring people   During early court appearances, he smiled to waiting friends as he was being taken in and out and smiled creepily for a cameraman as he waited in the back of a police car.

There is an element of envy, what might be called tall poppy syndrome, in English culture, and a hypocritical pressure towards overt propriety, regardless of how this contradicts private conduct.  Some people were simply jealous of Jeremy, nevertheless, Jeremy had flaws and by 1985, had not fully grown-up.  How could Gresham’s have helped him avoid his Fate?  Jeremy may well have developed the same bad character flaws even without the abuse, so the question stands either way.  Might drama and acting have worked therapeutically to improve and reform Jeremy and help him mature into a man in every proper sense?  On the face of it, Jeremy’s involvement in acting and drama at Gresham’s was thin and consisted of appearing in maybe two or three plays.  This is surprising, as he seems like the type who would excel at acting.  Let’s imagine, then, an alternate reality in which we are conducting the drama class at Gresham’s, and Jeremy is our pupil.  Identified as a badly behaved boy with developing character and attitude problems, the goal is to help reform him by reshaping his character through the medium of drama and performance, in the (perhaps forlorn) hope that this alters how he understands and relates to others.  How could this be achieved through drama?  One way would be to encourage a greater seriousness in Jeremy: to build his self-confidence, on the basis of seriousness and diligence and other characterful traits that are virtuous.
 
The first step is to get Jeremy into a role.  Berthold Brecht famously remarked in a poem, The Curtains, that acting is “work, not magic”.  The actor has to learn a script, or he must be skilled at improvising.  He must also be willing to take a risk and perform in public in an arena in which he could make a fool of himself.  All of this encourages certain qualities and attributes: Stoicism, confidence, bearing, good memory.  The actor is the focus of attention, something Jeremy would have liked, but he also has to give the floor to others and listen to what they say so that he knows when to make his own entrance or respond to cues.  The actor must also take direction, usually from an older person, and faces immediate feedback on what he is doing, often of a negative nature in which he is criticised or upbraided. 

It seems that, as noted earlier, the actor is fake from the beginning, but in a way he isn’t.  Unlike a veritable extroverted performer, who looks outward to his audience and their need for attention and entertainment, to be any good, the actor must be an introvert and search inside himself, either for self-knowing or a sense of duty.  He must have empathy for the character.  A little sympathy helps too.  Empathy requires imagination.  We have also seen how the actor must become skilled at relating to others, and ‘professionally’, he must have honesty, reliability and integrity. It is not the same as failing to turn up for a French exam or a game shoot.  If the actor doesn’t turn up, he lets down everyone and his actions have ramifications.

The role we should ask pupil Jeremy to perform for us needs to be serious.  Not ‘The Thing’ or the minor part he had in a performance of The School for Scandal at the real Gresham's.  We should have Jeremy slip into one of the great roles of English literature, indeed English history - he should learn by rote and perform Henry V’s St. Crispin's Day speech in Act IV, Scene III of the eponymous play by Shakespeare.  One way to begin would be to provide him with an example of a real actor, perhaps a famous one, performing the same role. 

Most people think of Laurence Olivier, and that was a great performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk_rPHoSc8w

Another example is that of David Gwillim as Prince Hal in the 1979 TV movie:


   
I also like Mark Rylance’s performance as Henry V, which marks a return to naturalism and ‘originalism’ in which the play itself is the focus rather than the actors or the proscenium:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOouofFFrZE

That was performed pretty much how it would have been in Shakespeare’s time, when actors were low-class and anonymous.

Another Rylance performance from Henry V, in essentially the same acting style:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvGnXQkTWuw

(For anyone interested, here is an interview/talk by Mark Rylance, mainly on the topic of Shakespeare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrZH9WmpOrw). 

Would a more confident, accomplished Jeremy, able to recite and perform Henry V from Shakespeare, have bunked-off to watch music concerts or taken cannabis?  I personally doubt it because I think within him Jeremy had ‘something’, some sort of talent, and part of his problem was that he could not quite bring it out because Gresham’s was the wrong forum for it.  He did not grow up.  Instead, he left Gresham’s lost and without direction or ambition.  That school had hollowed him out when they should have filled him up.

A filled-up Jeremy would have had his indiscretions, yes, as everyone does, but he would have recognised his duty to carry on the farming tradition and the opportunities this gave him to serve others and prosper.  In that alternate reality, the funeral of his father, Nevill, would have been a different affair. Let’s pause to imagine it.  Nevill has died peacefully and content, knowing that Jeremy will carry on the farm, along with Sheila’s children.  Jeremy is a mature and responsible young man, engaged to be married, and will soon have a family of his own. Respectable and considerate of his mother, Jeremy has been seen occasionally at the local parish church over the years but is not devout, nevertheless he is asked to speak at the service.  In his mind, the young farmer would call back to those purple days at Gresham’s and the dignity and bearing he brings to the funeral would reflect the lessons he learned at that prestigious school where he was trained as a gentleman, with only a few but important traces of a late 20th. century context.  He would offer a measured speech to the congregation, and perhaps a prayer.  There would be no ‘performing’.  He would walk hand-in-hand to the gravesides with his plain, conservatively-dressed fiancée, Miss. Julie Mugford, and his mother, June, pay his respects, then quietly leave to have lunch at Vaulty Manor, with the rest of the family, who have all paid their condolences and offered support.

We can see how so much of this (admittedly, imagined) scenario is radically unlike the real Jeremy and his behaviour at the real funeral of both his parents, which was a grotesque operatic distortion of English propriety, albeit Jeremy genuinely may have meant it as a nod to propriety.  Again, we return to Jeremy’s problem: in the real timeline, he was an essential misfit, thus even when – just maybe – he was trying to do the right thing, he was still off-key and produced an exaggerated facsimile. This can perhaps be explained by Jeremy’s inner insecurities: sensitive to how he would be perceived, and under the gaze of the world’s media, relatives and suspicious police officers, the performer had to over-perform when a Rylands-style underperformance would have struck a better note.  At least, though, Jeremy did put on that facsimile.  We are now in the age of the trashy funeral in which celebrities or just ordinary people laugh and share jokes and humorous put-downs about the deceased in a display of ‘contrived naturalism’, in which people affect to be enjoying themselves under the rationale of ‘celebrating a person’s life’.  Rather like at a party that has gone flat and awkward, there are long pregnant pauses between scripted, semi-rehearsed set-pieces that are meant to be funny.  In fairness, perhaps all this acts as a genuine emotional salve for those who are bereaved, and maybe also it lifts some of the typical awkwardness around people whose loved one has died - a distinct trait of the English especially.

This trend started, I think, in the 1990s.  Sometimes it can be quite moving and dignified:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPgkl2dPqGw

The blunt truth is that death is sad, and even in the very primitive, pre-emotional times of Man when ‘sadness’ and ‘conscience’, as such, were not conceived of, death would have signalled an underlying impending sense of doom for survivors, who may have wondered when their turn would come.  Perhaps the trivialisation of the funeral rites, the laughing and joking, is a way for a secular society - in which religion and all its answers no longer has a strong hold - to deter such awkward questions.  Not that such questions were ever aired in public anyway, but the effect may be to deter it from the privacy of one’s own mind, where the angst of frustrated existence always beats its tin drum, and in the case of men like Jeremy Bamber, bears an insufferable load. 

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21137
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2021, 12:22:AM »
What a horrible piece, an apologia for a mass murderer if ever there was one. Many people are adopted, abused, starved of love or affection and proceed to make some kind of life for themselves against all odds. You glamorize murder, your logorrhea wrapped in a package adorned with tinsel, causing Colin anguish and distress in the process. You deceive yourself with your own motives, looking yourself as you did for your own shortcut in life, which led you like Jeremy to crime, whilst Nevill and June fought for King and Country and Nicholas and Daniel never knew the word materialism or that they in the natural course of things were heirs to a small fortune.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 12:42:AM by Steve_uk »

guest29835

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2021, 08:18:AM »
What a horrible piece, an apologia for a mass murderer if ever there was one. Many people are adopted, abused, starved of love or affection and proceed to make some kind of life for themselves against all odds. You glamorize murder, your logorrhea wrapped in a package adorned with tinsel, causing Colin anguish and distress in the process. You deceive yourself with your own motives, looking yourself as you did for your own shortcut in life, which led you like Jeremy to crime, whilst Nevill and June fought for King and Country and Nicholas and Daniel never knew the word materialism or that they in the natural course of things were heirs to a small fortune.

Where in the piece do I excuse a mass murderer or glamorise murder?  Please be specific and pinpoint the passages that excuse a mass murderer and glamorise the act of murder.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21137
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2021, 09:12:AM »
Where in the piece do I excuse a mass murderer or glamorise murder?  Please be specific and pinpoint the passages that excuse a mass murderer and glamorise the act of murder.
You have done so in your own self-deceptive way. Many people from the past lived ordinary, common, decent lives without an ounce of the privilege Jeremy Bamber accrued (read Gray's Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard for comparison), yet you excuse his lacklustre performance at Gresham's (fees £12370 per annum), blame people in that institution for corrupting him, go off at a tangent speculating as to Bamber's latent acting ability, posting past monarchs for what might have been, when the plain fact is that Jeremy killed five whose nonmaleficence towards him you overlook time and again and whose voices in my posts will be heard.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 09:12:AM by Steve_uk »

guest29835

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2021, 09:43:AM »
You have done so in your own self-deceptive way. Many people from the past lived ordinary, common, decent lives without an ounce of the privilege Jeremy Bamber accrued (read Gray's Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard for comparison), yet you excuse his lacklustre performance at Gresham's (fees £12370 per annum), blame people in that institution for corrupting him, go off at a tangent speculating as to Bamber's latent acting ability, posting past monarchs for what might have been, when the plain fact is that Jeremy killed five whose nonmaleficence towards him you overlook time and again and whose voices in my posts will be heard.

You have not answered my question.  The reason you do not answer my question is either you have simply not read the piece and instead scanned through it and picked out things, or you have read it and you don't understand what you've read.

Nevertheless, to clarify, I am not holding anybody other than Jeremy responsible for his lacklustre performance at Gresham's, as ultimately Jeremy is responsible for his own life.  However, Jeremy was a child and then teenager at Gresham's, so we can't put the blame on him entirely for his years there, and we have to acknowledge that he came under certain influences there and, it would appear, certain people there failed him in the most basic aspects of his welfare - including his teachers at Gresham's, and also including his adoptive parents, who should have taken more of an interest in what was going on.

I personally don't blame his parents for sending him there, and I doubt Jeremy does.  Gresham's was a massive opportunity for him, but it was also a difficult environment for him, and there is every indication that the people who should have been looking out for him did not do so, and instead of holding their hands up to it, or maintaining a bit of dignity and choosing their words about Jeremy judiciously, they have launched into a full-frontal assault on him and take glee in his apparent guilt of these crimes.

I find that objectionable!  I also remind you of some words from one of England's great Early Modern poets and scholars:

"No man is an island entire of itself", wrote John Donne. 

These things are not simple.  In that vein, no doubt those I criticise would have something to say in their own defence, but I would prefer to hear it from them, not from a screeching, sanctimonious nonentity like you.

Thank you.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21137
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2021, 10:00:AM »
You have not answered my question.  The reason you do not answer my question is either you have simply not read the piece and instead scanned through it and picked out things, or you have read it and you don't understand what you've read.

Nevertheless, to clarify, I am not holding anybody other than Jeremy responsible for his lacklustre performance at Gresham's, as ultimately Jeremy is responsible for his own life.  However, Jeremy was a child and then teenager at Gresham's, so we can't put the blame on him entirely for his years there, and we have to acknowledge that he came under certain influences there and, it would appear, certain people there failed him in the most basic aspects of his welfare - including his teachers at Gresham's, and also including his adoptive parents, who should have taken more of an interest in what was going on.

I personally don't blame his parents for sending him there, and I doubt Jeremy does.  Gresham's was a massive opportunity for him, but it was also a difficult environment for him, and there is every indication that the people who should have been looking out for him did not do so, and instead of holding their hands up to it, or maintaining a bit of dignity and choosing their words about Jeremy judiciously, they have launched into a full-frontal assault on him and take glee in his apparent guilt of these crimes.

I find that objectionable!  I also remind you of some words from one of England's great Early Modern poets and scholars:

"No man is an island entire of itself", wrote John Donne. 

These things are not simple.  In that vein, no doubt those I criticise would have something to say in their own defence, but I would prefer to hear it from them, not from a screeching, sanctimonious nonentity like you.

Thank you.
What on earth do Laurence Olivier (please spell it right) and convicted mass murderer Jeremy Bamber have in common?

guest29835

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2021, 10:11:AM »
What on earth do Laurence Olivier (please spell it right) and convicted mass murderer Jeremy Bamber have in common?

Oh no! In the midst of typing all that, I accidentally spelt somebody's name wrong.  Wow....

And here's the thread where I spell his name right, just to show that I do actually know how to spell his name:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10576.0.html

I didn't say that the great Sir Laurence Olivier and a mass murderer have anything in common.  You clearly have not read the piece, or you have but don't understand what you have read.

There is more I could say, but to continue this would be cruel.

Please seek help.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21137
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2021, 10:18:AM »
Oh no! In the midst of typing all that, I accidentally spelt somebody's name wrong.  Wow....

And here's the thread where I spell his name right, just to show that I do actually know how to spell his name:

https://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,10576.0.html

I didn't say that the great Sir Laurence Olivier and a mass murderer have anything in common.  You clearly have not read the piece, or you have but don't understand what you have read.

There is more I could say, but to continue this would be cruel.

Please seek help.
I don't need NGB1066's assistance but you have clearly broken Forum Rules yet again. What is the main thrust of #1 if it is not an apologia for mass murder?  I'm sure many members are bemused.

guest29835

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2021, 10:22:AM »
I don't need NGB1066's assistance but you have clearly broken Forum Rules yet again. What is the main thrust of #1 if it is not an apologia for mass murder?  I'm sure many members are bemused.

Which specific forum rule have I broken, please?

Try answering a question this time, instead of ignoring it.

Also, do you realise that personal attacks on Forum members are contrary to Forum Rules?  You may wish to re-acquaint yourself with the Forum Rules, as you seem keen to allege breaches of rules that don't exist while flouting rules that do.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21137
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2021, 10:31:AM »
Which specific forum rule have I broken, please?

Try answering a question this time, instead of ignoring it.

Also, do you realise that personal attacks on Forum members are contrary to Forum Rules?  You may wish to re-acquaint yourself with the Forum Rules, as you seem keen to allege breaches of rules that don't exist while flouting rules that do.
You are not allowed to require Forum members to seek help. I won't go into your other multifarious, vulgar infractions over the past eighteen months.

Now could you please summarize in a short paragraph your message in #1?  I know it's difficult for the GCSE generation but do please try.

Offline Jane

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 33785
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2021, 10:34:AM »
You have not answered my question.  The reason you do not answer my question is either you have simply not read the piece and instead scanned through it and picked out things, or you have read it and you don't understand what you've read.

Nevertheless, to clarify, I am not holding anybody other than Jeremy responsible for his lacklustre performance at Gresham's, as ultimately Jeremy is responsible for his own life.  However, Jeremy was a child and then teenager at Gresham's, so we can't put the blame on him entirely for his years there, and we have to acknowledge that he came under certain influences there and, it would appear, certain people there failed him in the most basic aspects of his welfare - including his teachers at Gresham's, and also including his adoptive parents, who should have taken more of an interest in what was going on.

I personally don't blame his parents for sending him there, and I doubt Jeremy does.  Gresham's was a massive opportunity for him, but it was also a difficult environment for him, and there is every indication that the people who should have been looking out for him did not do so, and instead of holding their hands up to it, or maintaining a bit of dignity and choosing their words about Jeremy judiciously, they have launched into a full-frontal assault on him and take glee in his apparent guilt of these crimes.

I find that objectionable!  I also remind you of some words from one of England's great Early Modern poets and scholars:

"No man is an island entire of itself", wrote John Donne. 

These things are not simple.  In that vein, no doubt those I criticise would have something to say in their own defence, but I would prefer to hear it from them, not from a screeching, sanctimonious nonentity like you.

Thank you.



Because of its length -an observation, not a criticism- I think one probably picks out those parts which stand out as having particular interest. For me, it was the picture you paint of JB being a fish out of water -"too posh for the local boys, not posh enough for Greshams"- and it's something I relate strongly to. I guess the big question here is did it relate to his adoption or was he simply in the wrong environment?

However elite the education may have been, boarding school, in the days of JB's residence, and a few years prior, my own, didn't appear to have anything close to a nurturing quality. It was more a question of the pupils being there to be taught, ergo, they would learn. It was hard for some of those pupils lucky enough to come from a close and loving family. How much more so it was for those whose parents had sent them there simply because it had a good reputation for excellence. Messages about how lucky these unhappy children were to be receiving such might have suggested, to them, there was little point in complaining. I don't think his move from public school to state education has been touched on, but he'd have found it a culture shock. I'm confident that seamlessly fitting in would have been difficult, if not, impossible. It certainly wasn't the right environment for a youth being groomed to be a 'gentleman farmer'. I have a sense of him trying to balance /forget!!! the future planned for him with his own dreams. There's not one clear indication of what they may have been, but wine bars feature quite prominently. I doubt that the Bambers had the vision to see their adopted son as doing anything other than following in Nevill's footsteps. JB is alleged to have claimed prison life to be easier than boarding school. Might it be, that for the first time in his life, he's found somewhere he's comfortable.

Offline killingeve

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2021, 10:37:AM »
You have not answered my question.  The reason you do not answer my question is either you have simply not read the piece and instead scanned through it and picked out things, or you have read it and you don't understand what you've read.

Nevertheless, to clarify, I am not holding anybody other than Jeremy responsible for his lacklustre performance at Gresham's, as ultimately Jeremy is responsible for his own life.  However, Jeremy was a child and then teenager at Gresham's, so we can't put the blame on him entirely for his years there, and we have to acknowledge that he came under certain influences there and, it would appear, certain people there failed him in the most basic aspects of his welfare - including his teachers at Gresham's, and also including his adoptive parents, who should have taken more of an interest in what was going on.

I personally don't blame his parents for sending him there, and I doubt Jeremy does.  Gresham's was a massive opportunity for him, but it was also a difficult environment for him, and there is every indication that the people who should have been looking out for him did not do so, and instead of holding their hands up to it, or maintaining a bit of dignity and choosing their words about Jeremy judiciously, they have launched into a full-frontal assault on him and take glee in his apparent guilt of these crimes.

I find that objectionable!  I also remind you of some words from one of England's great Early Modern poets and scholars:

"No man is an island entire of itself", wrote John Donne. 

These things are not simple.  In that vein, no doubt those I criticise would have something to say in their own defence, but I would prefer to hear it from them, not from a screeching, sanctimonious nonentity like you.

Thank you.

Where's the evidence for your claims above ie 

- Lacklustre performance?
- Who/what are the certain influences you refer to?
- In what way was Gresham's a massive opportunity but also a difficult environment?
- Who from Gresham's has launched into a full-frontal assault on him?
- On what basis did Mr and Mrs Bamber and his teachers fail him?

guest29835

  • Guest
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2021, 10:38:AM »
You are not allowed to require Forum members to seek help. I won't go into your other multifarious, vulgar infractions over the past eighteen months.

Now could you please summarize in a short paragraph your message in #1?  I know it's difficult for the GCSE generation but do please try.

At least we now have some honesty from you, for a change. You now - tacitly - admit that you did not actually read the piece.  You just came on here to goad me in the hope that I would say something that could result in a ban.  I am disgusted at your behaviour and your attitude - and I am not the only one, I can tell you.

I will not summarise it.  Either you read it or you don't.  It is your free choice. 

As for the part of your post I highlight in bold, even if there is some factual truth in what you say, moderation of a forum is not an accounting exercise where we tot up breaches and infractions and split the difference.  You are in breach of Forum Rules because you are coming on the Forum to attack and goad me and disrupt threads.  It's as simple as that.  You are repeating here conduct you have committed over the last ten years against other Forum members, most of whom have left in disgust.

Can I suggest we end it there?  Since you have not even read the piece, there seems little point to your contributions other than to cause annoyance.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21137
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2021, 10:54:AM »


Because of its length -an observation, not a criticism- I think one probably picks out those parts which stand out as having particular interest. For me, it was the picture you paint of JB being a fish out of water -"too posh for the local boys, not posh enough for Greshams"- and it's something I relate strongly to. I guess the big question here is did it relate to his adoption or was he simply in the wrong environment?

However elite the education may have been, boarding school, in the days of JB's residence, and a few years prior, my own, didn't appear to have anything close to a nurturing quality. It was more a question of the pupils being there to be taught, ergo, they would learn. It was hard for some of those pupils lucky enough to come from a close and loving family. How much more so it was for those whose parents had sent them there simply because it had a good reputation for excellence. Messages about how lucky these unhappy children were to be receiving such might have suggested, to them, there was little point in complaining. I don't think his move from public school to state education has been touched on, but he'd have found it a culture shock. I'm confident that seamlessly fitting in would have been difficult, if not, impossible. It certainly wasn't the right environment for a youth being groomed to be a 'gentleman farmer'. I have a sense of him trying to balance /forget!!! the future planned for him with his own dreams. There's not one clear indication of what they may have been, but wine bars feature quite prominently. I doubt that the Bambers had the vision to see their adopted son as doing anything other than following in Nevill's footsteps. JB is alleged to have claimed prison life to be easier than boarding school. Might it be, that for the first time in his life, he's found somewhere he's comfortable.
What a shocking truth there may be in your last sentence Jane, yet how many of us could survive even a week cooped up like some battery hen in a chicken shed? I did write either a post or a thread on his incarceration but have sought many times to retrieve to no avail. I'm willing to go so far as to think Nevill at least regarded the school fees as some kind of investment, as if he were planting a crop, which once harvested would be repaid in kind, yet in this case capitalism seems to have failed. The parents found themselves time and again shelling out money for their offspring, their dreams for both shattered as they viewed the réalité dispassionately and became reluctant to talk before friends and neighbours. It's the downside of the pressure of having to be the role model, to set the standard, when the Trojan Horse acts insidiously to destroy one's whole life's work.

Offline Steve_uk

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 21137
Re: Jeremy Bamber, The Actor
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2021, 10:57:AM »
At least we now have some honesty from you, for a change. You now - tacitly - admit that you did not actually read the piece.  You just came on here to goad me in the hope that I would say something that could result in a ban.  I am disgusted at your behaviour and your attitude - and I am not the only one, I can tell you.

I will not summarise it.  Either you read it or you don't.  It is your free choice. 

As for the part of your post I highlight in bold, even if there is some factual truth in what you say, moderation of a forum is not an accounting exercise where we tot up breaches and infractions and split the difference.  You are in breach of Forum Rules because you are coming on the Forum to attack and goad me and disrupt threads.  It's as simple as that.  You are repeating here conduct you have committed over the last ten years against other Forum members, most of whom have left in disgust.

Can I suggest we end it there?  Since you have not even read the piece, there seems little point to your contributions other than to cause annoyance.
Don't be stupid. I have taught English language and literature (amongst other subjects) for thirty years plus. Don't insult me that I can't read your scatterbrain thread, which I am now asking for a third time for you to summarize the salient points.