Author Topic: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.  (Read 30635 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2021, 10:36:AM »
 "empty vessels make the most noise".

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2021, 10:38:AM »
No---you just like being seen ! Attention-seeker they're known as.

Well David created the thread.

You believe Sheila's blood fell into the silencer mid massacre when Sheila took it off.

This was obviously after the silencer scratched the aga.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2021, 10:40:AM »
Not sure how Sheila's blood could fall into the silencer mid massacre.

She wasn't bleeding!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 10:43:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2021, 10:43:AM »
August 7th

DC Clarke tells Ann Eaton that Nevills body was found by the AGA near the mantle shelf.

Ann Eaton takes Julie to the mortuary and notes down Nevills injuries after talking to Julie.

August 8th:

Jeremy provides a witness statement saying he left the rifle in the kitchen without the silencer on.

August 9th:

After visiting the accountant, Jeremy asks Ann Eaton to pay back the loan for the farmland that she is living on. In order to pay death duties.

Ann Eaton visits WHF with DCI and DS Jones. While there she would have seen the blue coat obscuring a certain area of the mantle shelf.

August 10th:

Relatives visit WHF again and collected the silencer and also take back home Sheila's blood stained clothing. David Boutflour does not recall seeing any blood, paint or hair on the silencer while at WHF at this stage.

Ann Eaton contacts Whitam police station about the silencer later that evening.

August 13th:

Stan Jones collects the silencer and gives it to DI Cook.

August 14th:

Ann Eaton alerts DI Cook to the scratch marks under the mantle shelf.

And so, to summarise AE had the means motive and opportunity to contaminate the sound moderator in order to incriminate JB.

The visit to the mortuary took place on 8th Aug at a time when the bodies would have been embalmed.  Ms Mugford would only have seen the victims' faces.

Bamber said he left the rifle near the settle which was in a hall. 

DS Jones collected the silencer on 12th Aug.  He handed it to DI Cook on 13th Aug and it went to the lab the same day.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2021, 11:19:AM »
August 7th

DC Clarke tells Ann Eaton that Nevills body was found by the AGA near the mantle shelf.

Ann Eaton takes Julie to the mortuary and notes down Nevills injuries after talking to Julie.

August 8th:

Jeremy provides a witness statement saying he left the rifle in the kitchen without the silencer on.

August 9th:

After visiting the accountant, Jeremy asks Ann Eaton to pay back the loan for the farmland that she is living on. In order to pay death duties.

Ann Eaton visits WHF with DCI and DS Jones. While there she would have seen the blue coat obscuring a certain area of the mantle shelf.

August 10th:

Relatives visit WHF again and collected the silencer and also take back home Sheila's blood stained clothing. David Boutflour does not recall seeing any blood, paint or hair on the silencer while at WHF at this stage.

Ann Eaton contacts Whitam police station about the silencer later that evening.

August 13th:

Stan Jones collects the silencer and gives it to DI Cook.

August 14th:

Ann Eaton alerts DI Cook to the scratch marks under the mantle shelf.

And so, to summarise AE had the means motive and opportunity to contaminate the sound moderator in order to incriminate JB.

At trial Ed Lawson for the defence made reference to the little known phenomenon referred to as draw-back (blood entering the silencer from a contact gunshot wound) by referring to an article by US pathologists Allen and Stephens (1983) who said at the time it was poorly understood.

Also at trial Malcolm Fletcher (HO ballistics) told the court -

457. Mr Fletcher, the firearms expert, gave evidence to explain how blood got into the moderator if it was attached, or into the barrel if there was no moderator attached. He said that the mechanism was complicated and not then fully appreciated. However, the expanding gas when the bullet left the muzzle was under normal circumstances distributed into the atmosphere. However with a contact shot there was no opportunity for this escape and the gas would follow the bullet into the wound as it expanded. Back pressure would then build up forcing the gas back out of the wound taking with it blood and tissue which would in effect be blasted back into the barrel if there was no moderator or into the moderator if one was attached. He said that even without direct contact, the same effect might occur but only if the gap between the end of the barrel, or the moderator if attached, and the skin was less than one millimetre. He said that the likelihood of such an occurrence was to an extent dependent on the part of the body to which the shot was delivered and the amount of blood present at that point.

And yet David1819 wants us to believe that Mrs Eaton, a farmer, had the wherewithal to contaminate the silencer with diluted period blood!

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2021, 12:10:PM »
At trial Ed Lawson for the defence made reference to the little known phenomenon referred to as draw-back (blood entering the silencer from a contact gunshot wound) by referring to an article by US pathologists Allen and Stephens (1983) who said at the time it was poorly understood.

Also at trial Malcolm Fletcher (HO ballistics) told the court -

457. Mr Fletcher, the firearms expert, gave evidence to explain how blood got into the moderator if it was attached, or into the barrel if there was no moderator attached. He said that the mechanism was complicated and not then fully appreciated. However, the expanding gas when the bullet left the muzzle was under normal circumstances distributed into the atmosphere. However with a contact shot there was no opportunity for this escape and the gas would follow the bullet into the wound as it expanded. Back pressure would then build up forcing the gas back out of the wound taking with it blood and tissue which would in effect be blasted back into the barrel if there was no moderator or into the moderator if one was attached. He said that even without direct contact, the same effect might occur but only if the gap between the end of the barrel, or the moderator if attached, and the skin was less than one millimetre. He said that the likelihood of such an occurrence was to an extent dependent on the part of the body to which the shot was delivered and the amount of blood present at that point.

And yet David1819 wants us to believe that Mrs Eaton, a farmer, had the wherewithal to contaminate the silencer with diluted period blood!

Very doubtful Bamber was aware of it.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2021, 12:15:PM »
We have yet to know how the silencer came to have blood inside it as up to now there have only been theories about it so it's hardly worth getting excited about until we have the right answer from forensics.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2021, 12:18:PM »
We have yet to know how the silencer came to have blood inside it as up to now there have only been theories about it so it's hardly worth getting excited about until we have the right answer from forensics.

It has been clear since 1986 -

Back spatter from Sheila's two contact shots in areas of high blood flow.

Keep up.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2021, 12:28:PM »
We have yet to know how the silencer came to have blood inside it as up to now there have only been theories about it so it's hardly worth getting excited about until we have the right answer from forensics.

It was the clincher at the 1986 trial and still stands. 

Sheila's contact gunshot wounds.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2021, 12:29:PM »
Very doubtful Bamber was aware of it.

And even more doubtful Mrs Eaton was!

guest7363

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2021, 12:55:PM »
And even more doubtful Mrs Eaton was!
Menstrual blood is made of blood, remains of an unfertilized egg, and the mucus membrane prepared by the uterus for a fertilized egg to attach to.

She was banking on the Lab not noticing or picking up on this, how was she to know what test the Lab would do and what for?  She hadn’t a clue what tests the Lab would run on the blood, it was a very high risk gamble in which Ann would know that menstrual blood would differ.

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2021, 12:57:PM »
And even more doubtful Mrs Eaton was!

That is correct. Suspect David believes AE read some books straight after the massacre.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2021, 01:02:PM »
Menstrual blood is made of blood, remains of an unfertilized egg, and the mucus membrane prepared by the uterus for a fertilized egg to attach to.

She was banking on the Lab not noticing or picking up on this, how was she to know what test the Lab would do and what for?  She hadn’t a clue what tests the Lab would run on the blood, it was a very high risk gamble in which Ann would know that menstrual blood would differ.


Dear God! It's bad enough having to cope with one's own!! The thought of handling someone else's is nauseating beyond words!!!

Offline Adam

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2021, 01:10:PM »
Believe David is relying on AE already knowing what 'back spatter' is. As well as AE believing a rifle used for shooting rabbits was powerful enough to produce back spatter from a contact shot.

After that she needed to find out a lot more information. Forthwith.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest7363

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Re: Sequence of events surrounding the silencer.
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2021, 01:12:PM »

Dear God! It's bad enough having to cope with one's own!! The thought of handling someone else's is nauseating beyond words!!!
Well she’s certainly not trying to cover herself, if she was hiding something she wouldn’t have mentioned finding the Knickers and finding the silencer in her statements.