Is this an honest forum?

[chochokeira]

Poor Bambi
Still waiting for you  to introduce the evidence that proves JB is guilty?




Do you know what everyday that goes on the support for JB gets stronger, the latest recruit Simon McKay

We are a wash with Barristers and Lawyers offering free help to get an innocent man out of prison

I wonder why these people are offering this help

It's glaringly obvious to me

Jackie

Jeremy was found guilty in a court of law by 12 of his fellow citizens.

By the way who is Simon McKay?

The judge and jury in this case were denied the right to make a just decision by the huge body of evidence that was withheld, PE. Others have been wrongly found guilty in similar circumstances and have later been freed when they were found to be victims of miscarriage of justice. the same will be true of Jeremy Bamber, he will eventually be freed, justice will prevail, I am confident of of this.

[chochokeira]

What evidence (given at trial or found elsewhere) shows that JB personally tried to sell such photos to the Sun? Did JM state at JB's trial that she would be paid a large sum if JB were convicted? If the trial evidence was as convincing as you seem to think, why were two jurors not convinced? Would you agree that it's quite possible that more than two jurors would not have been convinced of JB's guilt if the jury had known about JM's prospective payout? If you're correct about JB, what sort of person was JM to side with Jeremy for about a month until she fell out with him?

Well it appears that JB had a similar deal and knew about JM's deal, if the jury didn't know, then the defence had ample opportunity to inform them.

Oh so now you're saying that Bamber didn't try and sell explicit photos of Bambi to The Sun? It was front page news written by the reporter who was shown the photos! Are we now to add The Sun to the Mugford, Boutfour, Police, etc. etc. list of people who conspired to have Bamber convicted?

The Sun would never blacken somebodies name would they !!

Absolutely not    Good point, jon +1

[Hartley]

I was confident England were going to win the World Cup in South Africa last year, look what happened there. 

[curiousessex]

Curiousessex I used to find your posts of interest but now you seem to be running out of ideas to debate

We have done the jury thing to death haven't we

Have you heard of the Guildford 4 or the Birmingham six

I take it from your post you believe they should never have been released from prison

Try googling Simon McKay and let me know if you think he is a good addition to JB s campaigners

Jackie

Thank you for the indirect compliment.

You asked 'Poor Bambi' to introduce the evidence which proves JB to be guilty. I was merely pointing out that, as it stands at the moment and in the eyes of the law which is what ultimately matters, JB has been found guilty in a court of law. Everything before the CCRC is not about proving him to be guilty again it is about identifying if there is reason to refer his case to the Court of Appeal for a third time.

In answer to your question regarding the Guildford 4 and Birmingham 6......... yes I have heard of them.

On that point your assumption is incorrect as I do believe they should have been released from prison. There was a miscarriage of justice and as such they should have been released....... Well the fact of the matter is they should never have been convicted in the first place given the manner in which they were convicted.

As per your suggestion I will google Simon McKay and I will endeavor to let you know if I think he is a good addition to JB's campaign.

[chochokeira]

Poor Bambi
Still waiting for you  to introduce the evidence that proves JB is guilty?

Do you know what everyday that goes on the support for JB gets stronger, the latest recruit Simon McKay

We are a wash with Barristers and Lawyers offering free help to get an innocent man out of prison

I wonder why these people are offering this help

It's glaringly obvious to me

Jackie

Jeremy was found guilty in a court of law by 12 of his fellow citizens.
By the way who is Simon McKay?

curiousessex  - to be fair it was 10 rather than 12 - the other 2 jurors voted for not guilty.

Hmmm is that true? I thought that the other two members of the jury didn't vote not guilty, they abstained. (I may well be wrong though).

Yes it is true.  They voted not guilty.

The court transcript states that two dissented. That does not mean they voted not guilty.

As I understand it, dissent has a specific meaning in legal terms. It means that, for one reason or another a judge or member of the jury disagrees with the decision of the majority. Dissenting justices will usually write a dissenting opinon to go along with the main court opinion. The dissenting opinion will state reasons why the dissenting justices disagree with the majority decision. Dissent is not equivalent to abstention, which means refraining from reaching a decision.

[ngb1066]

Poor Bambi
Still waiting for you  to introduce the evidence that proves JB is guilty?




Do you know what everyday that goes on the support for JB gets stronger, the latest recruit Simon McKay

We are a wash with Barristers and Lawyers offering free help to get an innocent man out of prison

I wonder why these people are offering this help

It's glaringly obvious to me

Jackie

Jeremy was found guilty in a court of law by 12 of his fellow citizens.
By the way who is Simon McKay?

curiousessex  - to be fair it was 10 rather than 12 - the other 2 jurors voted for not guilty.

Hmmm is that true? I thought that the other two members of the jury didn't vote not guilty, they abstained. (I may well be wrong though).

Yes it is true.  They voted not guilty.

The court transcript states that two dissented. That does not mean they voted not guilty.

It does.  That is just the form of words used by the jury bailiff or court clerk.  If a juror is sure of guilt he votes guilty, if not sure he votes not guilty.  Jurors are obliged by the oath they take to reach a verdict.  If you mean that we do not know whether the two dissenting jurors were convinced of Jeremy's innocence rather that simply not sure of his guilt you have a point, but a strong indication of their views was that as the verdicts were read out two of the jurors were in tears.  We will never know, but my guess is that those were the two dissenting jurors and they believed Jeremy was innocent.



 

[Reader]

Oh so now you're saying that Bamber didn't try and sell explicit photos of Bambi to The Sun?

I don't think it's established that The Sun reporter you mention was shown pictures directly by Jeremy, as distinct from one of his friends. What is your explanation of the fact that DCI Jones, who headed the police investigation for about a month, was convinced that JB was not the killer? He must have had good reason.

[Hartley]

As I understand it, dissent has a specific meaning in legal terms. It means that, for one reason or another a judge or member of the jury disagrees with the decision of the majority. Dissenting justices will usually write a dissenting opinon to go along with the main court opinion. The dissenting opinion will state reasons why the dissenting justices disagree with the majority decision. Dissent is not equivalent to abstention, which means refraining from reaching a decision.

That's not how I understood it, but I confess that I know nothing.

[curiousessex]

Curiousessex I used to find your posts of interest but now you seem to be running out of ideas to debate

We have done the jury thing to death haven't we

Have you heard of the Guildford 4 or the Birmingham six

I take it from your post you believe they should never have been released from prison

Try googling Simon McKay and let me know if you think he is a good addition to JB s campaigners

Jackie

Thank you for the indirect compliment.

You asked 'Poor Bambi' to introduce the evidence which proves JB to be guilty. I was merely pointing out that, as it stands at the moment and in the eyes of the law which is what ultimately matters, JB has been found guilty in a court of law. Everything before the CCRC is not about proving him to be guilty again it is about identifying if there is reason to refer his case to the Court of Appeal for a third time.

In answer to your question regarding the Guildford 4 and Birmingham 6......... yes I have heard of them.

On that point your assumption is incorrect as I do believe they should have been released from prison. There was a miscarriage of justice and as such they should have been released....... Well the fact of the matter is they should never have been convicted in the first place given the manner in which they were convicted.

As per your suggestion I will google Simon McKay and I will endeavor to let you know if I think he is a good addition to JB's campaign.

Jackie

I have googled Simon Mckay.............is this the Simon McKay from McKay Law based in Leeds?

[Enigma]

Oh so now you're saying that Bamber didn't try and sell explicit photos of Bambi to The Sun?

I don't think it's established that The Sun reporter you mention was shown pictures directly by Jeremy, as distinct from one of his friends. What is your explanation of the fact that DI Jones, who headed the police investigation for about a month, was convinced that JB was not the killer? He must have had good reason.

I deliberately didn't say that Bamber showed the explicit photos to the reporter. A friend of Bamber's did on his behalf. As for D I Jones ... maybe he thought Bamber innocent .... obviously the police charged Bamber with five murders so D I Jones must have been pretty much a lone voice. 

[ngb1066]

As I understand it, dissent has a specific meaning in legal terms. It means that, for one reason or another a judge or member of the jury disagrees with the decision of the majority. Dissenting justices will usually write a dissenting opinon to go along with the main court opinion. The dissenting opinion will state reasons why the dissenting justices disagree with the majority decision. Dissent is not equivalent to abstention, which means refraining from reaching a decision.

That's not how I understood it, but I confess that I know nothing.

keira is referring to the situation where a panel of judges, sitting for example in the Court of Appeal or the Supreme Court, do not agree either on the appeal itself or upon the reasons for allowing or dismissing.  It such cases dissenting judgements may be given, but the decision of the majority stands.  The position with a jury trial is different - "dissenting" by a juror in a case such as the Bamber case means voting not guilty.

[Enigma]

Oh yes, we've heard a lot about the "integrity" of newspapers these days haven't we?

So you're saying Bamber didn't try and sell explicit photos of Sheila to The Sun?
(So The Sun lied, Mugford lied, the extended family lied, the police lied, the courts didn't give him a fair trial, the appeal courts were biased! The list grows by the day on this forum!)

[Jackiepreece]

Curiousessex

Yes that's Simon

With regard to your comment regarding the jury I am thinking of compiling a list of people who think JB is guilty so far we have
10 members of the jury(not having all the information)
We have the relatives who inherited the Bamber fortunes
Julie Mugford who got 25 thousand bonus
Essex police
Maybe at best 20 people on here
Bob woof

That doesn't add up to many

On the other hand people who think JB is innocent

Mike Tesko
Ngb1066
Simon McKay
Eric allison
All the people that have written testemonial
About 30 of us novices on here
At least 1000 of the 1600 twitter users who follow me
Freddie
Landlord chequers
Housekeeper
Accountant

Hopefully we can keep adding to each list and try to get to which side is in the minority

[Newbury1]

Curiousessex

Yes that's Simon

With regard to your comment regarding the jury I am thinking of compiling a list of people who think JB is guilty so far we have
10 members of the jury(not having all the information)
We have the relatives who inherited the Bamber fortunes
Julie Mugford who got 25 thousand bonus
Essex police
Maybe at best 20 people on here
Bob woof

That doesn't add up to many

On the other hand people who think JB is innocent

Mike Tesko
Ngb1066
Simon McKay
Eric allison
All the people that have written testemonial
About 30 of us novices on here
At least 1000 of the 1600 twitter users who follow me
Freddie
Landlord chequers
Housekeeper
Accountant

Hopefully we can keep adding to each list and try to get to which side is in the minority

Innocent - And the students. How many came out in support of JB and was there a petition signed and if so how many (real) names on it 

[Jackiepreece]

I didn't mention petitions

The people who contact me are a mixture of barristers, lawyers, law students, journos, writers