Nevill's call to Bamber. What was Sheila doing?

[Kestrel19]

Nevill's alledged call to Bamber is certainly the weirdest call ever.

It benefits Nevill in no way, takes several minutes, it's at 3am & Nevill only says 11 words before putting the phone down!

But 'maybe'.....

I don’t know that it doesn’t benefit Nevill - as I was trying to point out there may have been good reasons for the call but the circumstances changed as he made it which is why it was suddenly cut short

[guest7363]

There could be a couple of possibilities in the call, we don’t know the tone of Nevill’s voice, maybe there had been an argument in the kitchen with him and Sheila without the gun, he calls Jeremy to give a hand as she’s being particularly aggressive (could the scratch marks come from here?) he doesn’t want to get June involved as he doesn’t want to risk her being hurt with Sheila in that mood so calls Jeremy whilst there is a stand off. The call is intended to be “can you please come and give me a hand? Your sisters being difficult” And the call starts in that vain, however whilst he’s talking Sheila grabs the gun for the first time and runs off - so his “she’s got a gun” is actually a separate thought/point and exclamation as he puts the phone down to chase her.

Or possibly another possibility is that she had the gun the whole time but he didn’t believe she would do anything with it, he calls Jeremy to help because he’s concerned that if he tries to take the gun off her then it could accidentally go off and injure either him or her, same for not getting June involved but he thinks Jeremy’s extra strength (or ability to negotiate) might work to avoid someone accidentally getting injured. Whilst he’s waiting for Jeremy to answer He and Sheila are still arguing across the kitchen which is why she doesn’t run off till he’s distracted by now speaking to Jeremy on the phone once he answers, when the phone is just ringing he can still focus on talking to Sheila.

Both of these are only suggestions - if the call took place then no one will ever know what really happened it can only be guessed at.

Quite possible, Sheila could have grabbed the Gun at the last minute and Nevill spurts out She’s got the gun, to which he ends the phone call to chase after her.  But why phone Jeremy in the first place if he’s managed to disarm her?  Maybe he needed an extra pair of hands to manage and keep an eye on her like you say, she’s probably gone overboard to what he can normally deal with on his own.

[guest29835]

Quite possible, Sheila could have grabbed the Gun at the last minute and Nevill spurts out She’s got the gun, to which he ends the phone call to chase after her.  But why phone Jeremy in the first place if he’s managed to disarm her?  Maybe he needed an extra pair of hands to manage and keep an eye on her like you say, she’s probably gone overboard to what he can normally deal with on his own.

Something I've just remembered: the gun cupboard was not locked and it was not lockable, either.

[guest7363]

Just to make clear, it was 30 miles each way, not 60 miles.  Will try your suggestion.  Used to run half-marathons.  Now I'd collapse after 5 miles!  LOL.

Anyway, as you say, the thread has been interesting.  Everybody will come to their own conclusions.  For me, trying to test the scenario brings up more questions.  It's never-ending.

Yes I gathered that but it’s still a good commute.  I think once your sporty or have been, you can get back into it.  I find the trails more interesting, not only safer but it’s  involving map reading and a friendlier ride.

[guest7363]

Something I've just remembered: the gun cupboard was not locked and it was not lockable, either.

Im a bit on the fence on that one QC, without going over it again, I thought the outer door to the office was lockable, but not the actual under stair cupboard?

[guest7363]

Just to make clear, it was 30 miles each way, not 60 miles.  Will try your suggestion.  Used to run half-marathons.  Now I'd collapse after 5 miles!  LOL.

Anyway, as you say, the thread has been interesting.  Everybody will come to their own conclusions.  For me, trying to test the scenario brings up more questions.  It's never-ending.

Yes quite a lot of Grey areas that leave an open door and it’s this that makes it such an interesting case.

[guest29835]

Im a bit on the fence on that one QC, without going over it again, I thought the outer door to the office was lockable, but not the actual under stair cupboard?

Ah.  OK.  We had a thread on this that I started and I think you weren't around at the time, so that point wasn't brought up. If you are correct, that would address the point and it would also help explain why a guilty Jeremy has to say he left the rifle and ammunition out. 

However, if the office (den) was locked, how does Jeremy enter the den to leave the silencer in the gun cupboard?  Did he have a key? 

You could just as well argue that Jeremy did not have a key, so that is why he left everything out in the back hallway/scullery area, for Nevill to collect, per an informal understanding they had.  Would Nevill allow Jeremy a key to his private office anyway, notwithstanding the location of the rifle?

Also, I recall witness statements from Robert Boutflour, Jnr. and Anthony Pargeter in which they recount entering the den with no mention of it being locked.  Mr Pargeter's statement is particularly relevant because he did so on his own - if you'll recall, it was to retrieve his own rifle.  Did June give him a key?

[Adam]

The thread poll question was what was Sheila doing 'while' Nevill was phoning Bamber. And waiting for an answer. Which would have been a process lasting several minutes.

QC & Lookout believe Sheila was in the kitchen with Nevill. Sheila calm enough to let Nevill phone Bamber.

Lookout believes Sheila was holding the rifle at 'Nevill's ear'. Which suggests Sheila demanded Nevill phone Bamber. Lookout does not say why.

QC believes Nevill phoned Bamber at 3am to 'stall' her. Although it's likely to agitate her more.

[JackieD]

I don't believe the mystery over the phone calls will ever be proven but as discussed in an earlier post the whole of 'Jeremys Plan' relied on the phone calls being untraceable. I have always believed Jeremy to be stupid but really that stupid?

[guest7363]

Ah.  OK.  We had a thread on this that I started and I think you weren't around at the time, so that point wasn't brought up. If you are correct, that would address the point and it would also help explain why a guilty Jeremy has to say he left the rifle and ammunition out. 

However, if the office (den) was locked, how does Jeremy enter the den to leave the silencer in the gun cupboard?  Did he have a key? 

You could just as well argue that Jeremy did not have a key, so that is why he left everything out in the back hallway/scullery area, for Nevill to collect, per an informal understanding they had.  Would Nevill allow Jeremy a key to his private office anyway, notwithstanding the location of the rifle?

Also, I recall witness statements from Robert Boutflour, Jnr. and Anthony Pargeter in which they recount entering the den with no mention of it being locked.  Mr Pargeter's statement is particularly relevant because he did so on his own - if you'll recall, it was to retrieve his own rifle.  Did June give him a key?

Maybe it’s worth re-visiting again QC just to refresh.  I haven’t got time tonight it does take a lot of statements to go through. 

[guest29835]

I don't believe the mystery over the phone calls will ever be proven but as discussed in an earlier post the whole of 'Jeremys Plan' relied on the phone calls being untraceable. I have always believed Jeremy to be stupid but really that stupid?

On the other hand, it could be one or both of these:

(i). he just didn't think about it.  Bills were not itemised back then, so it may not have occurred to him;
(ii). he didn't plan the killings in any great detail and the phone calls happened because Nevill ended up in the kitchen and, rightly or wrongly, Jeremy decided that this would have to be explained by Nevill using the phone at some point. 

[guest7363]

Maybe it’s worth re-visiting again QC just to refresh.  I haven’t got time tonight it does take a lot of statements to go through.

I think we’ll leave that one QC 🙈. I’ve just had a dabble with it again and I’m still non the wiser.

[guest29835]

I think we’ll leave that one QC 🙈. I’ve just had a dabble with it again and I’m still non the wiser.

No problem.  I enjoyed that.  The Forum at its best.

You seem knowledgeable as well on the fitness front.  I've let things slip - too much time on here and a certain astronomy forum, plus reading books and chess!  Need to take your advice and get fit again.

[Rob_]

No problem.  I enjoyed that.  The Forum at its best.

You seem knowledgeable as well on the fitness front.  I've let things slip - too much time on here and a certain astronomy forum, plus reading books and chess!  Need to take your advice and get fit again.

Astronomy and chess QC? what is your favourite opening?

[ngb1066]

Astronomy and chess QC? what is your favourite opening?

We have several keen chess players on the forum.  Maybe we should organise a tournament!