Questions for Steve

[Rob_]

May I suggest you read the 2002 appeal court hearing.  It is the most comprehensive and yet succinct case material.

I have been looking through it Cc if you don't mind me saying it appears very biased and incorrect in places.

For example it talks about the lead content on the hand swabs, but makes no mention of the copper content matching the two testers loading 18 bullets into a magazine?

It also states that SC's hands were perfectly clean? but PV in his hand written notes says there was a blooded palm print on her nightdress from her right hand?

If I am missed something hopefully you can correct me?

[Steve_uk]

I have been looking through it Cc if you don't mind me saying it appears very biased and incorrect in places.

For example it talks about the lead content on the hand swabs, but makes no mention of the copper content matching the two testers loading 18 bullets into a magazine?

It also states that SC's hands were perfectly clean? but PV in his hand written notes says there was a blooded palm print on her nightdress from her right hand?

If I am missed something hopefully you can correct me?

Well you didn't read point 50 for a start. Additionally one wonders why her nails remained intact. To shoot herself once let alone twice one might have thought she would have had to grip the rifle fairly tightly, enough to give forensics more than the one fingerprint they did find.

[Rob_]

Well you didn't read point 50 for a start. Additionally one wonders why her nails remained intact. To shoot herself once let alone twice one might have thought she would have had to grip the rifle fairly tightly, enough to give forensics more than the one fingerprint they did find.

I did read this, but I expect the report to be accurate and fair, I find two errors or misleading information within two paragraphs. I know nothing about guns but have seen videos claiming a child could have used the rifle.

Talking about fingerprints on the rifle, how many cops mauled it on the day?

[Steve_uk]

I did read this, but I expect the report to be accurate and fair, I find two errors or misleading information within two paragraphs. I know nothing about guns but have seen videos claiming a child could have used the rifle.

Talking about fingerprints on the rifle, how many cops mauled it on the day?

DI Cook wasn't wearing gloves; DC Hammersley was. Cook lifted the Anschütz using the sling fittings on the butt and under the barrel, two very narrow surfaces from which "there would have been no chance of recovering any idintifiable finger marks."

Paragraph 50 of the 2002 Appeal:

50. Following removal of the bags at the mortuary, Sheila Caffell's hands and forehead were swabbed. Extremely low traces of lead were detected when the swabs were examined. Such levels being consistent with the levels found from the handling of every day things around the house. These results were compared to hand swabs taken from volunteers at the laboratory who were required to load the magazine with eighteen rounds of ammunition. Significantly higher traces of lead were found than those recorded on the hands of Mrs Caffell. The scientist Mr Elliott gave evidence that if Sheila Caffell had loaded eighteen cartridges into a magazine he would have expected the hand swabs to have revealed appreciably higher deposits of lead.

[Rob_]

DI Cook wasn't wearing gloves; DC Hammersley was. Cook lifted the Anschütz using the sling fittings on the butt and under the barrel, two very narrow surfaces from which "there would have been no chance of recovering any idintifiable finger marks."

Paragraph 50 of the 2002 Appeal:

50. Following removal of the bags at the mortuary, Sheila Caffell's hands and forehead were swabbed. Extremely low traces of lead were detected when the swabs were examined. Such levels being consistent with the levels found from the handling of every day things around the house. These results were compared to hand swabs taken from volunteers at the laboratory who were required to load the magazine with eighteen rounds of ammunition. Significantly higher traces of lead were found than those recorded on the hands of Mrs Caffell. The scientist Mr Elliott gave evidence that if Sheila Caffell had loaded eighteen cartridges into a magazine he would have expected the hand swabs to have revealed appreciably higher deposits of lead.

Ok I agree with that, but where does it say the copper content of the swabs did match the volunteers who loaded 18 bullets into a magazine?

[lookout]

There's such a thing as washing. Sheila may have used the bathroom and would naturally have washed her hands afterwards.

[Steve_uk]

Ok I agree with that, but where does it say the copper content of the swabs did match the volunteers who loaded 18 bullets into a magazine?

I'm not sure I follow.

[Rob_]

I'm not sure I follow.

The swabs were also tested for copper, and the copper content of SC's right hand matched the copper content of the testers who had loaded 18 bullets into a magazine.

[Steve_uk]

The swabs were also tested for copper, and the copper content of SC's right hand matched the copper content of the testers who had loaded 18 bullets into a magazine.

Is this contained in David's report with the small print I cannot read?

[Rob_]

I'm not sure I follow.

Also it was mentioned at trail that lead would be removed more easily than copper, this is a guess but maybe the blood on SC's right hand had to be removed before the swab could be taken resulting in the low level of lead found?

[Rob_]

Is this contained in David's report with the small print I cannot read?

I found this from a post David made, but it is in the trail statements.

[Adam]

216.

At trial, Mr Rivlin QC, who appeared for the appellant at trial, sought to counteract this evidence in two ways.

First in cross-examination of the scientist, he drew his attention to traces of other elements in the test results from the swabs, iron and copper, and queried whether these were significant.

The scientist said that they were no more than might have been obtained from the atmosphere.

He did not think the copper could have come from the bullets unless they had been scratched.

[Rob_]

216.

At trial, Mr Rivlin QC, who appeared for the appellant at trial, sought to counteract this evidence in two ways.

First in cross-examination of the scientist, he drew his attention to traces of other elements in the test results from the swabs, iron and copper, and queried whether these were significant.

The scientist said that they were no more than might have been obtained from the atmosphere.

He did not think the copper could have come from the bullets unless they had been scratched.

If these results had been from swabs of JB's hands you would have been jumping up and down for joy!

[Adam]

If these results had been from swabs of JB's hands you would have been jumping up and down for joy!

Why?

[Rob_]

Why?

Because it would be the only real evidence you have putting JB at the scene of the crime.