Important Question For NGB

[mike tesko]

One thing that any suspecting member of the forum, or visitors, or for that matter, any ordinary member of the public should be aware of, is that every police vehicle, be it being used in an official capacity, or undercover or covertly, has its own seperate log. The date, time, driver and passenger details must be kept up to date, at peril of disciplinary action, or worse...

So, what now needs to be done, is to get access or disclosure to the vehicle logs of all the police vehicles that are documented as attending the incident at the farmhouse. In particular, the vehicle logs of police vehicles bearing call signs 'CA05' and 'CA07', covering the 6th - 7th August 1985...

[mike tesko]

There are also registers, which record the date of issue of police notebook/pocketbooks, when they were issued to a particular police officer, against the recorded date, and the signatures of both 'the issuing officer' , and the 'name of the police officer' that particular book is, or was being 'issued it' too. Also to be borne in mind, is that each note/pocket book has its own unique serial  number. Save to say, that despite it being made clear, that any serving police officer may only be in possession of a single note/pocket book at any one given time, that many officers have two, three or more of these,  at tgeir disposal, which they put details they hope to use when they are deliberately framing a person, or other. I mention this, because in the instant case, evidence pertaining to the involvement and interreaction of 'DS Jones' in this case throughout August / September 1985, his handwritten notes have been re-written in a duplicate police note/pocket book. It seems somewhat obvious to me, that the reason for this is, that he has tried to conceal for the fact that he did return to the farmhouse, to recover a silencer ['SBJ/1'] which 'Jeremy' had told him about at his cottage, a silencer which belonged to the family who owned the .22 semi-automatic 'Anshuzt' rifle [' the Bambers'], however, what is not yet fully understood as of now, is whether or not that the silencer he collected from the scene that morning, was either the one 'Jeremy' mentioned (consisting of 14 internalysed metal baffle plates? , or if the silencer in question consisted of 17 internalysed metal baffle plates?

[Rob_]

In the documentary yesterday Malcolm Fletcher made it look almost impossible for Sheila to reload the gun. What were your thoughts on that part of the documentary?

I believe it's the last one or two bullets that are hard to insert? my guess is Sheila would have only loaded seven or eight bullets which would be easy.

[Rob_]

'almost impossible for Sheila to reload the gun.'

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Interesting. And there was no evidence she did.

There was evidence Adam, Sheila's hand swabs indicated a similar copper content to two testers who had loaded 18 bullets. I can't find any evidence of JB wearing flippers though I which you would give up on this?

I guess you would say the basket on the bike is proof?

[Adam]

There was evidence Adam, Sheila's hand swabs indicated a similar copper content to two testers who had loaded 18 bullets. I can't find any evidence of JB wearing flippers though I which you would give up on this?

I guess you would say the basket on the bike is proof?

Why do you keep mentioning flippers? It makes you look stupid on a serious subject.

[Adam]

 50.

Following removal of the bags at the mortuary, Sheila Caffell's hands and forehead were swabbed.

Extremely low traces of lead were detected when the swabs were examined.

Such levels being consistent with the levels found from the handling of every day things around the house.

These results were compared to hand swabs taken from volunteers at the laboratory who were required to load the magazine with eighteen rounds of ammunition.

Significantly higher traces of lead were found than those recorded on the hands of Mrs Caffell.

The scientist Mr Elliott gave evidence that if Sheila Caffell had loaded eighteen cartridges into a magazine he would have expected the hand swabs to have revealed appreciably higher deposits of lead.

51.

Mrs Caffell's nightdress was bloodstained.

When tested the blood was consistent with being her own blood.

The garment was also examined for the presence of any firearm discharge residues or oil from the rifle. No such traces were found.

The scientist gave evidence that there would be a strong chance of finding such residues or markings on the clothing of an individual who had fired a rifle twenty-five times.

[Rob_]

Why do you keep mentioning flippers? It makes you look stupid on a serious subject.

Don't reply to a post saying there is no evidence when you know very well there is.

[Adam]

47.

The firearms officers who were the first to see her body noted that her feet and hands were "perfectly clean". Her fingernails were well manicured and not broken and there were no marks or indentations on any of her fingers.

All her fingertips were clean and free from any blood, dirt or powder and there appeared to be no trace of any lead dust or coating which is usual when handling .22 ammunition.

48. The act of loading the magazine of an automatic weapon (carried out at least twice in this case) would be expected to leave visible traces of the lubricant and the materials from the bullets on the hands.

[Adam]

216.

At trial, Mr Rivlin QC, who appeared for the appellant at trial, sought to counteract this evidence in two ways.

First in cross-examination of the scientist, he drew his attention to traces of other elements in the test results from the swabs, iron and copper, and queried whether these were significant.

The scientist said that they were no more than might have been obtained from the atmosphere.

He did not think the copper could have come from the bullets unless they had been scratched.

[killingeve]

I believe it's the last one or two bullets that are hard to insert? my guess is Sheila would have only loaded seven or eight bullets which would be easy.

Must have been wearing rigger gloves then or something similar given her nails and varnish were immaculate.

[Rob_]

This is from a post David made showing there is evidence Sheila may have loaded bullets into a magazine so don't post misleading information you make yourself look silly Adam:

How can Sheila get copper on her left hand?

And why does both her left, right and control hand swabs show similar levels of copper that was found on the left, right and control hand swabs of the lab testees after loading 18 bullets into the rifle magazine?

The logical answer is she reloaded the magazine like the lab staff did.

B.R. Elliott, Cross-examined.

Q. Brass is softer than steel?

A: Brass is softer yes, but steel is appreciably harder.

Q: The constituents are what?

A: Copper and Zinc.

Q: I would like to continue, if I may, with this demonstration which has been given to us by the graphs you have produced, in relation to copper. If you look please, forgive me, I would like you to go back to the blank control swab. That copper there, is a copper element there which is virtually undetectable isn't it?

A: There is a hint of copper.

Q: A hint of it, but virtually undetectable. Now I would like you to go over the page to Sheila's left hand swab, taking the graph over the top.

A: Copper is there in a Larger quantity, but again very small.

Q: You agree that copper is there in a larger quantity but you say a very small amount. Copper is undoubtedly detectable, isn't it?

A: Yes, the copper is present on that hand swab.

Q: Go over the page to the right hand swab please. There is a little, in fact no more than the control swab?

A: That is correct yes.

Q: Would you now go over the page to the left hand of the female member of lab staff who was handling 18 of these cartridges and look at the copper there.

A: Yes.

Q: There is copper?

A: Yes there is.

Q: And it is a matter of comment, but if one goes back to Sheila's left hand swab it is about the same as Sheila's isn't it?

A: Yes.

Q: And if you go over to the right hand swab of the female member of the lab staff. Again we see copper there, but it is hardly any more than the copper that appears on the control swab.

A: Yes again a very small level.

Q: Just like Sheila's right hand I won't say exactly the same but it is similar isn't it?

A: Probably a little more but a low level.

Q: Thank you. Would you please now go over to the male member of the lab staff and look at copper.

A: Copper is certainly present there again in a small quantity.

Q: I see, and the right hand swab?

A: Again present in a small quantity.

Q: Slightly smaller quantity isn't it?

A: Slightly smaller than the left hand, Yes.

Q: Led is the softer you say, or lead particles are the softer?

A: Of the three metals we discussed so far.

Q: And much easier to smear off because of that?

A: To smear on and to smear off.

Q: To smear on and to smear off?

A: Yes.

Q: If one's hands are sticky? We saw what happened yesterday when Mr. Fletcher was in the witness box. If one's hands are sticky and perspiring and if one had reason to wipe them you would expect lead which has accumulated to be smeared off, wouldn't you?

A: Yes some of it would be smeared off, yes.

Q: As regards cartridges. When a cartridge is loaded into the magazine are you aware of this fact that the cartridge is liable to get scratched?

A: I know it can do yes.

Q: In those circumstances there may be particles of brass scratched off the cartridge.

A: Yes that is possible, yes.

Q: And it is right. isn't it. that a fine scratched off particles might show on your graph?

A: Yes that is correct.

[Adam]

This is from a post David made showing there is evidence Sheila may have loaded bullets into a magazine so don't post misleading information you make yourself look silly Adam:

How can Sheila get copper on her left hand?

And why does both her left, right and control hand swabs show similar levels of copper that was found on the left, right and control hand swabs of the lab testees after loading 18 bullets into the rifle magazine?

The logical answer is she reloaded the magazine like the lab staff did.

B.R. Elliott, Cross-examined.

Q. Brass is softer than steel?

A: Brass is softer yes, but steel is appreciably harder.

Q: The constituents are what?

A: Copper and Zinc.

Q: I would like to continue, if I may, with this demonstration which has been given to us by the graphs you have produced, in relation to copper. If you look please, forgive me, I would like you to go back to the blank control swab. That copper there, is a copper element there which is virtually undetectable isn't it?

A: There is a hint of copper.

Q: A hint of it, but virtually undetectable. Now I would like you to go over the page to Sheila's left hand swab, taking the graph over the top.

A: Copper is there in a Larger quantity, but again very small.

Q: You agree that copper is there in a larger quantity but you say a very small amount. Copper is undoubtedly detectable, isn't it?

A: Yes, the copper is present on that hand swab.

Q: Go over the page to the right hand swab please. There is a little, in fact no more than the control swab?

A: That is correct yes.

Q: Would you now go over the page to the left hand of the female member of lab staff who was handling 18 of these cartridges and look at the copper there.

A: Yes.

Q: There is copper?

A: Yes there is.

Q: And it is a matter of comment, but if one goes back to Sheila's left hand swab it is about the same as Sheila's isn't it?

A: Yes.

Q: And if you go over to the right hand swab of the female member of the lab staff. Again we see copper there, but it is hardly any more than the copper that appears on the control swab.

A: Yes again a very small level.

Q: Just like Sheila's right hand I won't say exactly the same but it is similar isn't it?

A: Probably a little more but a low level.

Q: Thank you. Would you please now go over to the male member of the lab staff and look at copper.

A: Copper is certainly present there again in a small quantity.

Q: I see, and the right hand swab?

A: Again present in a small quantity.

Q: Slightly smaller quantity isn't it?

A: Slightly smaller than the left hand, Yes.

Q: Led is the softer you say, or lead particles are the softer?

A: Of the three metals we discussed so far.

Q: And much easier to smear off because of that?

A: To smear on and to smear off.

Q: To smear on and to smear off?

A: Yes.

Q: If one's hands are sticky? We saw what happened yesterday when Mr. Fletcher was in the witness box. If one's hands are sticky and perspiring and if one had reason to wipe them you would expect lead which has accumulated to be smeared off, wouldn't you?

A: Yes some of it would be smeared off, yes.

Q: As regards cartridges. When a cartridge is loaded into the magazine are you aware of this fact that the cartridge is liable to get scratched?

A: I know it can do yes.

Q: In those circumstances there may be particles of brass scratched off the cartridge.

A: Yes that is possible, yes.

Q: And it is right. isn't it. that a fine scratched off particles might show on your graph?

A: Yes that is correct.

My last post said that. The COA stated the copper theory had been dismissed.

Unfortunately there is also the GSR, lead, lubricant, finger nails, powder, dust & blood evidence.

[Adam]

Not sure why the defence brought up copper. I suppose they couldn't dispute submitted evidence.

As the COA said, Sheila had no more copper on her than to be expected from the atmosphere.

[Adam]

Not sure why Rob disputes evidence which is 36 years old.

Even the CT only dispute one piece - the silencer. That is only because the relatives handed it in.

[mike tesko]

'' Sheila'didn't need to reload any gun with additional rounds of ammunition, because before the shootings began all the weapons available to her were already preloaded with either a full compliment of bullets, and a . 22 air rifle pellet:-

. 22 semi-automatic [anshuzt] Rifle 10 live rounds
. 22 [Brno] bolt action rifle 10 live rounds
. 22 [Bsa] air rifle 1 pellet

Other shots to victims were almost certainly inflicted on victims by the firearm officers ammunition, once they entered the farmhouse! As far as I am concerned there would not have been any trace evidence upon hand swabs taken from 'Sheila' to prove that she must have reloaded one gun on at least two occasions, if only one weapon was used as claimed by the prosecutions case. At least one of the three weapons I have listed above, had a silencer attached