Author Topic: Important Question For NGB  (Read 7026 times)

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Offline ngb1066

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2021, 09:47:PM »
ngb1066 based on any knowledge you might have about Bamber's 03/21 submission do you believe it will be referred?  Thanks.

ETA - Maybe this gives an outline

https://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/new-ccrc-submission

The problem is that I no longer have any inside track on the content of the new submissions and the evidence supporting them.  The link to the website outlining the grounds advanced sets out the grounds and states that there is new and powerful evidence in support of each of them.  If that is true a referral could well be made.  However the evidence will need to be strong and new.  If it is simply a restatement of points made before by reference only to evidence already relied upon it will not have any chance of a referral.  I simply do not know any more about this than anyone else here.  My gut feeling is pessimistic overall, but I accept we may all be surprised.

 

Offline killingeve

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2021, 09:54:PM »
The problem is that I no longer have any inside track on the content of the new submissions and the evidence supporting them.  The link to the website outlining the grounds advanced sets out the grounds and states that there is new and powerful evidence in support of each of them.  If that is true a referral could well be made.  However the evidence will need to be strong and new.  If it is simply a restatement of points made before by reference only to evidence already relied upon it will not have any chance of a referral.  I simply do not know any more about this than anyone else here.  My gut feeling is pessimistic overall, but I accept we may all be surprised.

Thank you. 


Offline Roch

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2021, 10:08:PM »
ngb, did you know anything about the now notorious 'informatives'?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2021, 09:23:AM »
Special Branch and interpol were carrying out an investigation at and around whitehouse farm, by use of small plane fitted with photographic equipment. from the content of some police documents I have seen, it appears that large parcels of drugs were being flown and dropped on land close to the 'Bambers' farmhouse, and that a high profile drug dealor from Holland, was understood to be behind this activity. The intelligence services learned that this druglord was planning to purchase an expensive property near to where the drugs were being dumped, and of course, close to whitehouse farm where around the time of these surveilances that were being carried out were occurring, three generations of the 'Bamber' family were executed within hours. It is also documented, that calls were made to holland from the farmhouse, a week or so prior to the time of the 5 deaths. Police beleived that 'Jeremy Bamber' and the 'druglord' knew eachother and that they had first come to know one another as a reslt of 'Jeremys' frequent visits to Amsterdam - police have the druglords name, address, and telephone no.

The intelligence services were operating in and around the farmhouse at the time of the shootings. According to a police record, unnamed occupants of police vehicle [`CA05']  was despatched to the incident at 3.35 am during the early morning of 7th August 1985, yet, by reference to the other narrative, the occupants of call sign 'CA07' and its occupants were deployed at that time allegedly containing 'PS Bews', 'PC Myall' and 'PS Saxby'..

'Jeremys' call to Chelmsford police is recorded and timed at 3.36am a minute or two after the unknown occupants of call sign 'CA35' and the police vehicle [`CA07'] carrying, 'Bews', 'Myall' and 'Saxby' to the incident. To complicate matters even more, it is well documented that 'PC Myall' must have arrived at the scene a head of 'Bews' and 'Saxby'. This is because he was present at the farmhouse at least 3 or 4 minutes prior to 'CA07' and its two occupants actually pulled up at the scene. Evidence proving this, is contained in a police document entitled 'Major Incident Register'. The damning evidence proving that "PC Myall' was already at the scene before 'Bews' and 'Saxby' arrived [3.48am] is confirmed by reference to the very first entry [001] in that register which clearly states, that at 3.45am 'PC Myall' had seen an 'Unidentifiable male walking away from the grounds of what turned out to be a murder scene'. [the identity of this person is unknown]. One thing that we can all be certain about, is that the 'unidentified male' that 'PC Myall' observed 'leaving the scene' at 3.45am, could not have been reference to 'Jeremy Bamber' due to the fact that he did not arrive at the farmhouse that night until 3.52am [ 3 or 4 minutes after the occupants of 'CA07' [ 'Bews' and 'Saxby'] had arrived there. It should also be pointed out, that enroute to the ongoing incident at the farmhouse, that the occupants of 'CA07' had passed and overtaken 'Jeremy' in his astra motor vehicle on the 'Tollesbury Road', and that from that point and them arriving at the scene, that 'Jeremy' had pulled up in his vehicle alongside them. This confirms that the 'unidentified male' person that was seen 'leaving the grounds of the farmhouse' by 'PC Myall' at 3.45am. Since, 'Jeremy' could 'not have been in two different places', at 'the same time'..
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 09:28:AM by mike tesko »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2021, 09:38:AM »
According to a newspaper article, about an hour after police first arrived at the famhouse [ `3.45am' or '3.48am', or 'earlier'] `a scruffy looking hunched up man was seen walking away from the farmhouse'.The identity of this man is 'unknown' , or 'not disclosed'..

This prompts me to suspect that 'PC Myall' was already at the scene one hour or so, before he saw an 'unidentified male' walking away from the farmhouse at 3.45am. If not, then two different unidentified male persons were both individually observed walking away from the murder scene wihin an hour of eachother...

It is something of a puzzle, beleiving that 'PC Myall' must not have arrived at the scene in police vehicle 'CA07' along with 'PS Bews' and 'PS Saxby' at 3.48am, because he wouldn't have been able to have seen the 'unidentified male' prson walking away from the house at 3.45am..

So, I think we can be certain, that 'PC Myall' was already at the farmhouse long before 'Bews' and 'Saxby' arrived there at 3.48am..
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 10:00:AM by mike tesko »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2021, 10:15:AM »
The sighting of a person seen moving around through the upstairs main bedroom window, alluded to by 'PC Myall', PS Bews' and 'Jeremy Bamber' which occurred at about 4.00am, during a recce of the farmhouse by those concerned, is a remarkable sighting, which 'PS Bews' has tried to fob off any suggestion that it was a living person, moving around but that in fact, he says 'it was a trick of light'. Well, first thing that comes to mind, is what 'Bews' has already said, regarding who saw the movement beyond the bedroom window first and drew the attention of the other two members of the group to it?

'PC Bews' has given a total of three different versions as to who saw the movement first, was it 'PC Myall', was it 'himself' or was it 'Jeremy'?  He has shot himself in the foot be declaring that everyody saw the movement beyond the bedroom window first, then that person alerted the other two regarding it. So, thats that covered...

I beleive that there was already an intelligence led operation ongoing at the location in and around whf long before 'Jeremy made the call to Chelmsford police station control room. This operation, included' Special Branch', MI5', 'Customs and excise', 'Interpol', 'the drug squad'" and 'Essex' and 'Metropolitan based poice officers', including 'trained firearm officers'...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 10:22:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2021, 10:35:AM »

So, I think we can be certain, that 'PC Myall' was already at the farmhouse long before 'Bews' and 'Saxby' arrived there at 3.48am..

In point of fact, 'PC Myall saw two unidentifiable persons at the scene, for example one leaving the grounds at 3.45am, and the other whom he could not identify whether that person be male or female, was the sighting of movement beyond the upstairs bedroom window. I am rather inclined to believe that the purpose of the recce around the farmhouse was 'PC Myalls' attempt to show 'PS Bews' the area he had very recently observed an unidentifiable male walking away from the farmhouse (3.45am), and that he had also been observing a person moving around inside the farmhouse potentially carrying a rifle or a shotgun - hence why, a request had already been made for a firearms team to be deployed before the recce of the farmhouse was underway. I think 'PC Myall' made the request, or one of the other unnamed persons at the scene all along did so...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 12:08:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2021, 11:57:AM »
In point of fact, 'PC Myall saw two unidentifiable persons at the scene, for example one leaving the grounds at 3.45am, and the other whom he could not identify whether that person be male or female, was the sighting of movement beyond the upstairs bedroom window. I am rather inclined to believe that the purpose of the recce around the farmhouse was 'PC Myalls' attempt to show 'PS Bews' the area he had very recently observed an unidentifiable male walking away from the farmhouse (3.45am), and that he had also been observing a person moving around inside the farmhouse potentially carrying a rifle or a shotgun - hence why, a request had already been made for a firearms team to be deployed before the recce of the farmhouse was underway. I think 'PC Myall' made the request, or one of the other unnamed persons at the scene all along did so...
The other officer, who I beleive arrived at the scene along with 'PC Myall' prior to 3.45am, were the occupants of police vehicle 'CA05', and that other officer was 'DC Henderson'...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 12:12:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2021, 12:26:PM »
I think that 'PC Myall' took 'PS Bews' on a recce around the farm accompanied by 'Jeremy' in order to confirm that a colleague had entered the farmhouse shortly after the unidentified male person had been seen leaving the premises at 3.45am. Failing this, the movement observed beyond the main bedroom window by 'Myall', 'Bews', and 'Jeremy' was confirmation that at least one of the three adult victims was still alive and moving about in the upstairs main bedroom, unaware that 'DC Henderson' had entered the farmhouse unnoticed...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 12:31:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2021, 12:38:PM »
Insofar as, the police radio message log entry timed at 5.25am, to the effect that firearm officers were engaged in conversation with a person from inside the farmhouse, this person was 'DC Henderson'. At 5.55am, he used a telephone within the farmhouse to talk to police colleagues back at police headquarters. Within 10 minutes of doing this, he was able to confirm that there were injured, and dead bodies inside the farmhouse. He was responsible for requesting ambulances, for the dead, dying or wounded...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 12:39:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2021, 12:49:PM »
The sudden appearence of a rifle resting against the inside box room window at about 7.15am, as was witnessed by 'WPC Jeapes' and 'another firearm officer'  was placed there by 'DC Henderson' and not by 'Sheila Caffell' as an indication that it was safe to enter the farmhouse and try to bring the seige to a conclusion. 'Sheila' was downstairs at that moment in the kitchen, hence why 'PC Collins' identified a dead female at that time as viewed from outside the kitchen window, looking inward...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2021, 01:10:PM »
The sudden appearence of a rifle resting against the inside box room window at about 7.15am, as was witnessed by 'WPC Jeapes' and 'another firearm officer'  was placed there by 'DC Henderson' and not by 'Sheila Caffell' as an indication that it was safe to enter the farmhouse and try to bring the seige to a conclusion. 'Sheila' was downstairs at that moment in the kitchen, hence why 'PC Collins' identified a dead female at that time as viewed from outside the kitchen window, looking inward...

From the vantage point outside the kitchen window, 'PC Collins' could only see the body of what appesred to him, to be 'the body of one dead female' [SheilaCaffell'] this was because of 'the acute angle' which restricted any chance of seeing `Neville Bambers' body that was sat perched on a wooden chair [slumped forward against the rear of the wooden chair that 'Sheila' was sat upon],behind a second wooden chair in which 'Sheilas' body was closest to the kitchen window, through which 'PC Collins' and a colleague observed. The position of 'Sheilas' body prevented anyone being able to see 'Neville Bambers' body behind hers [his body being closest to the kitchen side of an internal door that firearm officers would later with some dificulty 'force an entry' from 'the passageway beyond' , to get 'into the kitchen' ..
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 01:18:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline Bubo bubo

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2021, 01:33:PM »
Insofar as, the police radio message log entry timed at 5.25am, to the effect that firearm officers were engaged in conversation with a person from inside the farmhouse, this person was 'DC Henderson'. At 5.55am, he used a telephone within the farmhouse to talk to police colleagues back at police headquarters. Within 10 minutes of doing this, he was able to confirm that there were injured, and dead bodies inside the farmhouse. He was responsible for requesting ambulances, for the dead, dying or wounded...

Can you explain how Henderson effected entry to the premises.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2021, 01:37:PM »
It was 'DC Henderson' [I believe] who raised the alarm at 5.55am via use of one of the three telephones in working order at the farmhouse. At 6.09am, the telephone in its 'open line state' was then patched through directly to the control room (or the communications room) at Chelmsford police headquarters, by involvement of the opeator'. It was being recorded on tape, and a police officer sat monitoring it for two hours until at about 8.09am, senior officers at the scene ordered the eavesdrop to be aborted. Almost simultaneously, the firearm operation ongoing inside whf came to the first of two conclusions. This was that by around 8.10am, the raid team had reported the discovery of five deceased bodies [two bodies in the kitchen upon entry, and 'a further three bodies found upstairs' in two bedrooms] - this is/was reference up until that stage, that 'the bodies of 'Neville' and 'Sheila' were both found to be present in the kitchen downstairs', and that 'June Bambers' body was found upstairs in the main bedroom where she and her husband, 'Neville Bamber' normally always, slept. The 'two other victims' who had reportedly been found deceased upstairs could only have been reference to 'the bodies' of the twin boys, 'Daniel' and 'Nicholas Caffell'- 'five dead in total' ..
« Last Edit: October 15, 2021, 01:42:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Important Question For NGB
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2021, 01:48:PM »
Can you explain how Henderson effected entry to the premises.
Yes, he simply 'entered the insecure downstairs window' , that 'he' and 'PC Myall' had observed 'the unidentified male' - 'leave the premises' at around 3.45am [locking the catch/latch behind him so as 'to minimise the possible return' of 'the unidentified escapee' ]
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...