Author Topic: Louis Theroux  (Read 40279 times)

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guest7363

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2021, 07:35:PM »
Simon Hall done a lot of damage to genuine claims of miscarriages of justice.
Having said that, I think the CCRC will have its referral figures boosted this year by the fact they’re referring a lot of the Postal Scandal cases.

guest29835

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2021, 06:47:AM »
Yes I agree, there was posters on here totally gone with him even though he confessed they wouldn’t accept it.

Was his confession confirmed?  Was it a signed and dated statement of truth?

Offline David1819

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2021, 08:10:AM »
Was his confession confirmed?  Was it a signed and dated statement of truth?

The CCRC asked him if he wanted to recant his confession. The case was then closed. So I guess so.


https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/story/2014-02-23/murderer-found-dead-in-prison/

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2021, 09:57:AM »
Was his confession confirmed?  Was it a signed and dated statement of truth?

It was a genuine confession. 

 

guest7363

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2021, 03:44:PM »
It was a genuine confession.
Ive seen letters confirming his confession NGB, I’m not going to put them up out of respect of Steph and the victims family.  Surprisingly I didn’t say it was a letter confession in my post, a confession could be orally if it was to the authorities.

guest29835

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #50 on: September 22, 2021, 12:39:PM »
Ive seen letters confirming his confession NGB, I’m not going to put them up out of respect of Steph and the victims family.  Surprisingly I didn’t say it was a letter confession in my post, a confession could be orally if it was to the authorities.

I don't believe it is disrespectful to print such letters.  They are in the public domain, by consent of the person who received them, and that person is directly involved.  I don't like this idea of applying emotional pressure not to discuss things or look at things.  Sometimes it's valid, but mostly it's not.  The case is interesting and it is public, so we'll discuss it if we want and put the letters up, if we want to.

This probably deserves its own thread in 'Other cases', but just quickly, I'll summarise why I'm sceptical about this confession.

(i). First, I have looked through the extracts of the letters and I cannot find a confession in them.  The nearest he comes to it is when he refers to his 'confession'.  That is not a confession.  You may find this a pedantic observation, and it could be pedantic if he really did confess, but the plain fact is that referring to a confession is not a confession.  Of course, it may be that I have missed the part in his letters where he does confess.  If I have, then by all means tell me where it is and I may change my opinion.

(ii). Still on the letters, are we sure they are from him?  Do they match his handwriting taken from elsewhere?  For the purposes of these discussions, and to avoid awkwardness, I am happy to assume they are his letters, just as long as we acknowledge that this is an assumption and that it relies on the honesty of the person claiming to have received the letters.

(iii). There was a phone call with his spouse in which it is said he confessed.  But we can't rely on that alone, as it's a reported conversation, which can be open to misinterpretation and other issues.

(iv). I am not aware of him having given a signed statement of truth in which he confesses and provides details of his offending that only the perpetrator would know.  Did he?  Did the Ministry of Justice, or the prison, or the Prison Service, issue a statement of its own confirming this had occurred? 

(v). I don't expect the police will have interviewed him again, and frankly I don't blame them, but as you will know, people who are disturbed or troubled do confess to things they haven't done.  I think this is well-known in the police.

(vi). It's clear from reading the extracts of the letters that he was mentally-disturbed or very troubled.  He may have been vulnerable to suggestion or influence, or he may have been 'institutionalised' by his experience of custody and seeking the attention he might lose if he became just another ex-lifer out of prison.  This is only speculation of course.

(vii). There is the simple fact that he claims innocence right from the start and maintains this for 12 or so years, then suddenly confesses.  There are no prior reports or rumours of him bragging to other prisoners about what he did and how he is conning miscarriage of justice campaigners, etc.

(viii). There is the additional fact that it seems he must have been a model prisoner.  He has committed a murder, yet he is already in a low security establishment after maybe 10 years or so and is being prepared for release in quick order.  This is not unusual in your fairy ordinary, humdrum murder cases, but this was, if I understand right, an habitual criminal with a prior violent criminal record who killed a vulnerable elderly lady.  Would somebody with that background who has really done something like that be ready for a low security regime in 10 years?  Maybe, in the best case.  But in a very broad sense, it adds a tinge of doubt for me on the idea that he could have done something like that.

(ix). He hanged himself.  That means he is no longer with us and so can't confirm that his confession was true.  If he really did kill that elderly lady, then I have no sympathy for him, but he spent years protesting his innocence.  For me, his behaviour doesn't follow the typical pattern.  Normally if a violent offender graduates to murder, he will not be protesting his innocence and then suddenly confessing and hanging himself.

guest7363

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #51 on: September 22, 2021, 12:56:PM »
I don't believe it is disrespectful to print such letters.  They are in the public domain, by consent of the person who received them, and that person is directly involved.  I don't like this idea of applying emotional pressure not to discuss things or look at things.  Sometimes it's valid, but mostly it's not.  The case is interesting and it is public, so we'll discuss it if we want and put the letters up, if we want to.

This probably deserves its own thread in 'Other cases', but just quickly, I'll summarise why I'm sceptical about this confession.

(i). First, I have looked through the extracts of the letters and I cannot find a confession in them.  The nearest he comes to it is when he refers to his 'confession'.  That is not a confession.  You may find this a pedantic observation, and it could be pedantic if he really did confess, but the plain fact is that referring to a confession is not a confession.  Of course, it may be that I have missed the part in his letters where he does confess.  If I have, then by all means tell me where it is and I may change my opinion.

(ii). Still on the letters, are we sure they are from him?  Do they match his handwriting taken from elsewhere?  For the purposes of these discussions, and to avoid awkwardness, I am happy to assume they are his letters, just as long as we acknowledge that this is an assumption and that it relies on the honesty of the person claiming to have received the letters.

(iii). There was a phone call with his spouse in which it is said he confessed.  But we can't rely on that alone, as it's a reported conversation, which can be open to misinterpretation and other issues.

(iv). I am not aware of him having given a signed statement of truth in which he confesses and provides details of his offending that only the perpetrator would know.  Did he?  Did the Ministry of Justice, or the prison, or the Prison Service, issue a statement of its own confirming this had occurred? 

(v). I don't expect the police will have interviewed him again, and frankly I don't blame them, but as you will know, people who are disturbed or troubled do confess to things they haven't done.  I think this is well-known in the police.

(vi). It's clear from reading the extracts of the letters that he was mentally-disturbed or very troubled.  He may have been vulnerable to suggestion or influence, or he may have been 'institutionalised' by his experience of custody and seeking the attention he might lose if he became just another ex-lifer out of prison.  This is only speculation of course.

(vii). There is the simple fact that he claims innocence right from the start and maintains this for 12 or so years, then suddenly confesses.  There are no prior reports or rumours of him bragging to other prisoners about what he did and how he is conning miscarriage of justice campaigners, etc.

(viii). There is the additional fact that it seems he must have been a model prisoner.  He has committed a murder, yet he is already in a low security establishment after maybe 10 years or so and is being prepared for release in quick order.  This is not unusual in your fairy ordinary, humdrum murder cases, but this was, if I understand right, an habitual criminal with a prior violent criminal record who killed a vulnerable elderly lady.  Would somebody with that background who has really done something like that be ready for a low security regime in 10 years?  Maybe, in the best case.  But in a very broad sense, it adds a tinge of doubt for me on the idea that he could have done something like that.
Oh right 👍

guest29835

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2021, 01:00:PM »
Oh right 👍

I'm just sceptical about it.  Not saying you're wrong.  Just my thoughts.

Offline JackieD

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #53 on: September 22, 2021, 01:44:PM »
I'm just sceptical about it.  Not saying you're wrong.  Just my thoughts.


Lost cause and a disgusting crime. There were pages and pages on here.
Julie Mugford the main prosecution witness was guilty of numerous crimes, 13 separate cheque frauds, robbery, and drug dealing and also making a deal with a national newspaper before trial that if she could convince a jury her ex boyfriend was guilty of five murders she would receive £25,000

guest29835

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2021, 01:50:PM »

Lost cause and a disgusting crime. There were pages and pages on here.

I admit I don't know much about the nitty-gritty of the case itself.  My comments above are just about the confession, which I regard as a controversy in its own right. 

To my knowledge, Jeremy has not had any TV programmes that unequivocally question his guilt.  The Channel Five documentary that included the Andrew Hunter interview also propounded the pro-guilt case.  Simon Hall had at least two mainstream TV documentaries that favoured him, produced and presented by respected people; he was also backed up by a substantial campaign involving academic justice campaigners.  That doesn't happen unless there is some basis to cast doubt on the conviction, though I accept it doesn't mean there really is doubt and the campaigners may have got it wrong.

Offline Adam

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2021, 03:09:PM »
I admit I don't know much about the nitty-gritty of the case itself.  My comments above are just about the confession, which I regard as a controversy in its own right. 

To my knowledge, Jeremy has not had any TV programmes that unequivocally question his guilt.  The Channel Five documentary that included the Andrew Hunter interview also propounded the pro-guilt case.  Simon Hall had at least two mainstream TV documentaries that favoured him, produced and presented by respected people; he was also backed up by a substantial campaign involving academic justice campaigners.  That doesn't happen unless there is some basis to cast doubt on the conviction, though I accept it doesn't mean there really is doubt and the campaigners may have got it wrong.

'Crimes that shook Britain' questions his guilt.

Susan & Caroline took an interest in the case after watching it. Both being passionate supporters on here. Then  becoming guilters.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 03:13:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest7363

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2021, 06:21:PM »
The CCRC asked him if he wanted to recant his confession. The case was then closed. So I guess so.


https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/story/2014-02-23/murderer-found-dead-in-prison/
My favourite scene from the Monty Python classic, no one believes him either, poor Brian 🙈

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4HB7zqP9QNo

Offline Adam

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2021, 06:56:PM »
JaneJ was a supporter before CTSB. She did not like Julie's court outfit. JaneJ later became a guilter.

Lookout and JackieD are the lady supporters left. Lookout because Jeremy sends her Christmas cards. JackieD because Julie identified the twins.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2021, 06:57:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2021, 07:00:PM »
Jeremy does have female supporters off the site. Although Trudie has jumped ship.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

guest7363

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Re: Louis Theroux
« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2021, 07:13:PM »
Jeremy does have female supporters off the site. Although Trudie has jumped ship.
Doesn’t Trudes get involved at all now?  Has she gone into the Patisserie business?