Author Topic: THE SILENCER SAGA  (Read 68080 times)

0 Members and 37 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline killingeve

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #165 on: October 19, 2021, 02:24:PM »
Yes but I was referring to a killer holding the gun, he would not immediately real back, like in a suicide. I would expect blood over the end of and inside the barrel or silencer if fitted in a contact shot? Not a tiny blob?

I am no expert but as I said I have seen head shots and it's not like in the films.

As I said the forensic literature shows that a high % of gunshot wounds, contact and non-contact, do not result in any blood whatsover depositing in/on barrels.  Obviously in this case we're interested in silencers. 

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44120
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #166 on: October 19, 2021, 02:27:PM »
The relatives would need to know -

Does other evidence show Sheila is guilty?

Sheila's arm lenght.

The rifle lenght with silencer.

Could Sheila have shot herself with the silencer attached.

What back splatter is.

Who of the 5 deceased received contact shots.

What locations would contact shots need to be to produce back splatter.

Where were the contact shots on the 5 deceased.

Is there any other forensic evidence against Sheila.

Was there a silencer next to Sheila.

How to realistically put blood into a silencer.

Where was Sheila's blood to insert into a silencer.

Did the rifle barrell already have blood on/in.

Did the crime scene photos show an unscratched aga.

Had the police already checked all silencers at WHF.

The chance of this one piece of framed evidence getting a conviction.

The punishment if caught doing this.

Confidence in each other that none would succumb to police pressure.

Sheila's blood group.

The blood group of each other.

Is it too late to introduce new evidence

----------

This had to be found out very quickly. Providing they have the idea & decide to go ahead.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 07:30:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44120
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #167 on: October 19, 2021, 02:29:PM »
David's claim that the relatives took diluted period blood from a bucket of water was dismissed years ago.

It is impossible to do.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline killingeve

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #168 on: October 19, 2021, 02:29:PM »
The DNA from within silencer DB1 was not that of Sheila. This was a letter sent from Dr. Clayton senior forensic scientist to the CCRC  in 2001.
The test was taken from Sheila's natural mother, Christine Jay and in reply, Dr. Clayton had said " in my opinion, the DNA cannot be from Sheila Bamber ".

The appeal court concluded that Sheila's dna was not in the silencer but that it didn't mean her blood hadn't been in the silencer since all visible traces had been swabbed away in the tests carried out in 1985/6. 

The type of dna testing used in 2001/2 was low copy number (lcn) which is capable of analysing samples invisible to the naked eye.

Offline killingeve

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #169 on: October 19, 2021, 02:32:PM »
So whose, if any, did the DNA come from ? Another answer we don't know and probably won't get to know.

It could have come from numerous individuals, even jurors who had the opportunity to dismantle and handle the silencer, since no precuations were taken to protect exhibits from contamination in a pre-dna era. 


Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48661
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #170 on: October 19, 2021, 02:35:PM »
It seems that the fraud squad were " interested " with the silencers documented in the Major Incident Property Register ! This was before the trial took place.

Entry 648M---sound moderator, DRB1---28/4/86.

Entry 675---2 x sound moderators found by Mr D Boutflour. Returned to DS 162 at Fraud Squad CD Witham Station property receipt signed by D Boutflour. Handed over by D Supt. Ainsley, dated 20/5 /88.


Offline killingeve

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #171 on: October 19, 2021, 02:36:PM »
The relatives would need to know -

Is Bamber innocent.

Sheila's arm lenght.

The rifle lenght with silencer.

Could Sheila have shot herself with the silencer attached.

What back splatter is.

Who of the 5 deceased received contact shots.

What locations would contact shots need to be to produce back splatter.

Where were the contact shots on the 5 deceased.

Is there any other forensic evidence against Sheila.

Was there a silencer next to Sheila.

How to realistically put blood into a silencer.

Where was Sheila's blood to insert into a silencer.

Did the rifle barrell already have blood on/in.

Did the crime scene photos show an unscratched aga.

Had the police already checked all silencers at WHF.

The chance of this one piece of framed evidence getting a conviction.

The punishment if caught doing this.

Confidence in each other that none would succumb to police pressure.

Sheila's blood group.

The blood group of each other.

----------

This had to be found out very quickly. Providing they have the idea & decide to go ahead.

You express relatively complex iideas and information in an easy to understand way.   :)

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44120
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #172 on: October 19, 2021, 02:39:PM »
The relatives successfully achieving the frame with the silencer in record time, must be the frame of the century.

Bamber spent 18 months planning his frame. Which failed.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 02:40:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13705
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #173 on: October 19, 2021, 02:41:PM »
The relatives would need to know -

Is Bamber innocent.

Sheila's arm lenght.

The rifle lenght with silencer.

Could Sheila have shot herself with the silencer attached.

What back splatter is.

Who of the 5 deceased received contact shots.

What locations would contact shots need to be to produce back splatter.

Where were the contact shots on the 5 deceased.

Is there any other forensic evidence against Sheila.

Was there a silencer next to Sheila.

How to realistically put blood into a silencer.

Where was Sheila's blood to insert into a silencer.

Did the rifle barrell already have blood on/in.

Did the crime scene photos show an unscratched aga.

Had the police already checked all silencers at WHF.

The chance of this one piece of framed evidence getting a conviction.

The punishment if caught doing this.

Confidence in each other that none would succumb to police pressure.

Sheila's blood group.

The blood group of each other.

----------

This had to be found out very quickly. Providing they have the idea & decide to go ahead.

"The Gish Gallop is the fallacious debate tactic of drowning your opponent in a flood of individually-weak arguments in order to prevent rebuttal of the whole argument collection without great effort. The Gish Gallop is a belt-fed version of the on the spot fallacy, as it's unreasonable for anyone to have a well-composed answer immediately available to every argument present in the Gallop. The Gish Gallop is named after creationist Duane Gish, who often abused it.

Gish Gallops are almost always performed with numerous other logical fallacies baked in. The myriad of component arguments constituting the Gallop may typically intersperse a few perfectly uncontroversial claims — the basic validity of which are intended to lend undue credence to the Gallop at large — with a devious hodgepodge of half-truths, outright lies, red herrings and straw men — which, if not rebutted as the fallacies they are, pile up into egregious problems for the refuter."

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 02:42:PM by David1819 »

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44120
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #174 on: October 19, 2021, 02:42:PM »
You express relatively complex iideas and information in an easy to understand way.   :)

Thanks.

That is why David gets upset.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline David1819

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 13705
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #175 on: October 19, 2021, 02:43:PM »
David's claim that the relatives took diluted period blood from a bucket of water was dismissed years ago.

It is impossible to do.

No, it isn't.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44120
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #176 on: October 19, 2021, 02:45:PM »
No, it isn't.

Please provide a source.

Be surprised if there are sources on how to put diluted period blood into a silencer.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44120
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #177 on: October 19, 2021, 02:47:PM »
The relatives would need to know -

Is Bamber innocent.

Sheila's arm lenght.

The rifle lenght with silencer.

Could Sheila have shot herself with the silencer attached.

What back splatter is.

Who of the 5 deceased received contact shots.

What locations would contact shots need to be to produce back splatter.

Where were the contact shots on the 5 deceased.

Is there any other forensic evidence against Sheila.

Was there a silencer next to Sheila.

How to realistically put blood into a silencer.

Where was Sheila's blood to insert into a silencer.

Did the rifle barrell already have blood on/in.

Did the crime scene photos show an unscratched aga.

Had the police already checked all silencers at WHF.

The chance of this one piece of framed evidence getting a conviction.

The punishment if caught doing this.

Confidence in each other that none would succumb to police pressure.

Sheila's blood group.

The blood group of each other.

----------

This had to be found out very quickly. Providing they have the idea & decide to go ahead.

Of course all this is irrelevant.

The relatives would never have had such a crazy, innovative, risky & complex idea in the first place.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 02:52:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48661
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #178 on: October 19, 2021, 02:49:PM »
It seems that the fraud squad were " interested " with the silencers documented in the Major Incident Property Register ! This was before the trial took place.

Entry 648M---sound moderator, DRB1---28/4/86.

Entry 675---2 x sound moderators found by Mr D Boutflour. Returned to DS 162 at Fraud Squad CD Witham Station property receipt signed by D Boutflour. Handed over by D Supt. Ainsley, dated 20/5 /88.





This was part of a COLP investigation which had been requested by JB for the existence of different silencers in police possession.

Offline killingeve

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
Re: THE SILENCER SAGA
« Reply #179 on: October 19, 2021, 03:29:PM »
This was part of a COLP investigation which had been requested by JB for the existence of different silencers in police possession.

NGB1066 posted the other day that the case involves a total of 5 silencers

Anthony Pargeter owned an identical sound moderator and that was also kept at WHF (Pargeter has given conflicting accounts about this at different times but that does not matter for this answer). Both Robert and David Boutflour also each owned a Parker Hale sound moderator and at some stage I understand these were also collected and examined by police.  That makes four sound moderators.  Finally, the FSS at Huntingdon had a Parker Hale moderator in stock and this was also used for some of their work on the case.  There were therefore at different times a total of five identical Parker Hale sound moderators which featured in the case.